Special Ability advancement

[TessarrianDM]

The winterspawn (Frostburn pg. 161) has an extraordinary ability that allows it to command undead as a 12th level cleric (it is a 12 HD undead). If I advance it to maximum HD (24), does it then command undead as a 24th level cleric? Also, it has the spell-like ability to create a fire shield on itself at will at caster level 12. Would this increase to caster level 24?

 

[Maleketh]

No and no. Unless noted in an individual monster's entry, increasing its HD does not improve is special abilities. (Some monsters, like the barghest, do improve their abilities as they gain HD.) The save DCs of the winterspawn's spell-like abilities would increase if the relevant ability score did as well, but that's all.

Of course, as DM, you can rule otherwise, but you should give the creature a greater CR increase to represent its truly exceptional prowess. You can also improve its turning by giving it levels of cleric.

 

[Infiniti2000]

There is, however, some room for creative interpretation. As shown below, you could just 'pretend' you didn't see the if clause in the bolded sentence.

For creatures with spell-like abilities, a designated caster level defines how difficult it is to dispel their spell-like effects and to define any level-dependent variables (such as range and duration) the abilities might have. The creature’s caster level never affects which spell-like abilities the creature has; sometimes the given caster level is lower than the level a spellcasting character would need to cast the spell of the same name. If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature’s Hit Dice.

 

[irdeggman]

There is, however, some room for creative interpretation. As shown below, you could just 'pretend' you didn't see the if clause in the bolded sentence.

Except in the OP's example (question) it is an "ex" ability not a "sp" and it specifies a level (12th level).

So in this case it (the quoted info) does not apply.

 

[frankthedm]

The winterspawn (Frostburn pg. 161) has an extraordinary ability that allows it to command undead as a 12th level cleric (it is a 12 HD undead). If I advance it to maximum HD (24), does it then command undead as a 24th level cleric? Also, it has the spell-like ability to create a fire shield on itself at will at caster level 12. Would this increase to caster level 24?

Nope. Those are set levels.

What is the critter's CR? Advancing undead can easily make them outgrow thier challenge rating. They may default 4HD/1CR, but that more because thier HP and BAB are crappy. Carefully watch abilties on them that are Save or be Defeated because the DCs on those skyrocket with advancement.

Now a happy medium would be to boost the caster levels for each 4 HD added. A smaller bump, but far more in line for the way undead advance.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Except in the OP's example (question) it is an "ex" ability not a "sp" and it specifies a level (12th level).

So in this case it (the quoted info) does not apply.

I was responding to the second point from the OP: "Also, it has the spell-like ability to create a fire shield on itself at will at caster level 12. Would this increase to caster level 24?"

 

[TessarrianDM]

Nope. Those are set levels.

What is the critter's CR? Advancing undead can easily make them outgrow thier challenge rating. They may default 4HD/1CR, but that more because thier HP and BAB are crappy. Carefully watch abilties on them that are Save or be Defeated because the DCs on those skyrocket with advancement.

Now a happy medium would be to boost the caster levels for each 4 HD added. A smaller bump, but far more in line for the way undead advance.

Base CR is 9. If advanced by 12 HD, CR becomes 12. Increasing his command undead level to Cleric 15 would enable him to rebuke undead with up to 19 HD (vs. 16 HD at level 12), Turning Damage would increase by 3 (average of 25 HD vs. 22 with a Cha of 16) and he could command those of up to 7 HD vs. 6 at level 12. Sound reasonable?

 

[irdeggman]

Unless the creatures entry says that its levels stack with levels of cleric for purposes of command/rebuke undead then they don't stack.


Unlike the familiar (for sorcerer and wizard) - the PHB does not say they stack.

Saying "as a cleric" does not mean the character is a cleric or that cleric levels stack. The paladin entries say turn as a cleric three levels lower would.

That is unless the Rules Compendium has changed this.