Special attacks + touch attacks

[Xakk]

If a character is able to add a special effect to a melee attack, would they be able to inflict that special effect when hitting with a touch attack? It seems that the text for many class' special abilities reads 'a melee attack' which according to my understanding a melee touch attack, is. So if one wanted to forego dealing weapon damage and instead increase their chance to inflict special attacks significantly, would they not elect to exclusively rely on touch attacks?

Even if you need to deal damage to inflict your special attack, there are weapons (mainly designed to deliver poisons) that use touch attacks. What of these?

 

[bloodtide]

Touch Spells

You can use a special attack as a touch attack. For most attacks, you need to touch a target. You can even make and attack and do damage and do a touch effect.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

If a character is able to add a special effect to a melee attack, would they be able to inflict that special effect when hitting with a touch attack? It seems that the text for many class' special abilities reads 'a melee attack' which according to my understanding a melee touch attack, is. So if one wanted to forego dealing weapon damage and instead increase their chance to inflict special attacks significantly, would they not elect to exclusively rely on touch attacks?

Even if you need to deal damage to inflict your special attack, there are weapons (mainly designed to deliver poisons) that use touch attacks. What of these?

I think so, could you give an example?

 

[Empirate]

As a rule, you can deliver everything that is a touch attack on a regular unarmed or natural attack: be it an Inflict spell, contact poison smeared on your glove, or what-have-you, you have a choice. Either make a regular attack, which will deal damage as normal AND deliver the spell/contact poison/etc., or make a touch attack, which will ONLY deliver the spell/contact poison/etc.

HOWEVER, the reverse isn't necessarily true! Not every 'rider effect' that applies on a successful regular unarmed or natural attack will also apply on a mere touch attack. For example, if you have an Amulet of Mighty Fists that is enchanted with the Wounding property (dealing 1 point of Con damage on a successful hit), it will work ONLY on regular attacks. If you just touch somebody, they won't take Con damage from it. Similarly, a Wight won't drain a level if it just touches you (unlike this comic strip seems to assume) - it needs a successful claw attack. A flaming weapon doesn't deal 1d6 fire damage if it just touches an opponent, either.

So all I can say is, it depends. Look at the ability's/effect's writeup. If it says something along the lines of "on each successful attack..." and doesn't qualify it with something like "even on a miss, if your attack would have hit the target's touch AC...", you're out of luck.

 

[Xakk]

So, from what I understand of what you're saying, if a character had an energy drain attack, they would be able to inflict this both on a mere touch attack and on a successful standard melee attack. But, they could not use Smite Evil (or more fittingly Good, here) with the touch attack used to deliver energy drain.
Is this correct?

This would then mean that touch attacks riding on standard melee attacks could make use of reach, abilities that pierce concealments, abilities that ignore Dex bonus, etc, correct?

I just get the feeling that somewhere in there it could be set up so an attack would ignore AC altogether. Or carry melee riders via touch attack. Perhaps a melee weapon that only required a touch attack to do damage? I think I've seen one.
Why does a Brutal weapon have to beat armor bonus to bullrush someone anyway?

 

[Empirate]

Concerning the hypothetical PC's energy drain attack: it once again depends on the wording of the ability. Compare the Wight example.

 

[Xakk]

I am less curious about the energy drain and more about the inability to use Smite Foo being confirmed as impossible.

Further I found the weapons I was thinking of. Poison Needle Ring from Dragon attacks as a touch attack with 1 damage, and there's a ghost arm graft that does the same for 1d6, though it doesn't specify whether it's with a weapon or unarmed. Aren't these more melee attacks that ignore armor bonus, than touch attacks ala touch spells? I feel (albeit cheesily) that I ought be able to attach full melee riders on such an attack as well as touch riders (which excepting spells and poisons are uncommon), maybe even SA (is SA considered a rider, or some whole other category?).