spell focus requires 13 Cha?

[Nifft]

SPELL FOCUS REQUIRES 13 CHARISMA!
-- Tiefling Wizard Recruitment Poster

Cheers, -- N

 

[Falling Icicle]

You tell me how a 12 charisma at first level screws your character's abilities.

Wizards already have 4 other abilties to worry about, and 4e point buy isn't exactly generous. If a character wants to get Charisma, great. But forcing them to do so to get a feat designed for their class, when it is an otherwise completely useless stat for their class, is just obnoxious and sadistic design.

[Edit]P.S. Just look at Weapon Focus, for example. Weapon-based classes need only ONE feat to get a +1/+2/+3 damage to ALL of their attacks. And Weapon Focus has no prerequisite ability scores. Wizards, on the other hand, have to get several feats to get the same benefits to their spells, each with two potentially difficult ability score requirements to meet: Astral Fire (Dex 13, Cha 13), Burning Blizzard (Int 13, Wis 13), Dark Fury (Con 13, Wis 13) and Raging Storm (Con 13, Dex 13). And his Force and Poison powers are still left out, even if he manages to take all those feats. Spell Focus is just one more feat that adds to the insane multiple-ability dependency of Wizards in this edition.

It is becoming increasing clear to me that the 4e designers are not only sadists, but they have a tremendous melee bias and hatred of the Wizard class.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

rangers need a 15 con to take armor focus hide. same deal.

 

[evilbob]

Putting stat requirements on feats that are totally outside of the desired stats for a class is a very bad way to balance things, IMO. They have very few feats that are even designed for casters, and then they basically flip you the bird by saying, hey, if you want it, you're going to have to screw your character's abilities.

Thank you - I completely agree.

Again, I think folks are focusing on the idea that advocating removing Cha as a requirement is an attempt at specialized character optimization. Honestly, my argument is not coming from that angle - although that angle is easily part of the argument. My argument is that this simply makes no sense, and this is a poor choice for balance.

It would be much more logical and intuitive - and balanced, I believe - to have a requirement of Con 15. This is an attribute that wizards can benefit from, but not all wizards are going to spend the points to get up to Con 15. And if they do, there is no way they are going to have an 18 starting Int and have Con and Dex both get to 15 before they really get high level. Forcing a wizard to choose from a wizard path is OK - forcing a wizard to start with a 20 point buy instead of a 22 just to get one feat is not OK.

 

[evilbob]

Just wanted to point out that wizards are far from the only class that has to consiider using points in a way they would prefer not to in order to get a powerful feat or two. If you were to house rule spell focus for wizards you'd probably want to house rule other feats for other classes.

This is a very good point. Can anyone provide a quick list of other feats that are specifically outside the top 4 attributes for a class? (The ranger one listed above can't possibly qualify.) Any other heroic or paragon level feats that specifically require a 5th attribute that a class would have no other use for?

 

[evilbob]

You tell me how a 12 charisma at first level screws your character's abilities.

Again, this sentiment - and frankthedm's idea that "18s & 8s" is bad - is not what I am saying is wrong with this. I have no problem with creating a stat requirement that does not allow a starting 18 Int, and I honestly don't believe a 12 Cha is going to "screw" your character. But I do think this is an extremely poor choice for balance, and it would make so much more sense to follow a wizard path rather than require something that seems so random.

 

[evilbob]

Can anyone provide a quick list of other feats that are specifically outside the top 4 attributes for a class?

I have not looked at each class in extreme detail, but a quick glance through the feat list shows no other feats that require "X attribute, class name" for any class name where X attribute is not listed in their "top 3" (or 4) attributes.

While I'm still wondering if there is such a feat, one thing I did find were things that require "class name, chosen path for class" as a requirement. That made me think that this might be the best requirement for spell focus: "Wizard, staff implement."

That removes the entire idea of having a point-buy penalty and just limits it to a wizard who has chosen a specific path for his class.

The only problem with this I can see is the feat that allows a wizard to use a second implement, but it would be easy enough to add the caveat that this feat didn't qualify you for spell focus, if that bothers anyone.

 

[Xorn]

With a 16 16 12 12 10 8 ability spread (before racial modifiers) it just doesn't seem to me that having a wizard able to specialize in multiple areas is going to be that rough. Really you need a high INT, a decent CON/DEX/WIS (depending on focus) and either WIS or CHA if you take the powers that have the target break free vs your Will (like Maze, etc).

That's just my take on things.

 

[Ydars]

Maybe someone at WoTC realised that to cast powerful spells using words and geatures, a wizard has to be someone who is commanding and has a certain amount of self confidence and eloquence beyond the norm.

 

[simply not edible]

Wizards, on the other hand, have to get several feats to get the same benefits to their spells, each with two potentially difficult ability score requirements to meet: Astral Fire (Dex 13, Cha 13), Burning Blizzard (Int 13, Wis 13), Dark Fury (Con 13, Wis 13) and Raging Storm (Con 13, Dex 13). And his Force and Poison powers are still left out, even if he manages to take all those feats. Spell Focus is just one more feat that adds to the insane multiple-ability dependency of Wizards in this edition.

It is becoming increasing clear to me that the 4e designers are not only sadists, but they have a tremendous melee bias and hatred of the Wizard class.

Hmmm... let's see. Take the standard array... STR 10, CON 13, DEX 12, INT 16, WIS 14, CHA 11. Add the Halfling, +2 DEX, +2 CHA, and presto, all the mentioned feats are accessible, from level 1. Given, I haven't taken into account the others, 'cause right now, I can't be bothered gathering the book, but hey.