spell focus requires 13 Cha?

[evilbob]

Edit: Thanks for editing your post.

 

[simply not edible]

Ah, yes. Sorry, slipped through somehow.

 

[evilbob]

SPELL FOCUS REQUIRES 13 CHARISMA!
-- Tiefling Wizard Recruitment Poster

If you remove the snarkiness from this post, there is secretly hidden what amounts to the best argument in favor of using Cha 13 given so far: making tieflings competitive wizards. They don't even have to try to get a Cha 12, which makes this an auto-feat for them at level 11.

 

[FadedC]

I have not looked at each class in extreme detail, but a quick glance through the feat list shows no other feats that require "X attribute, class name" for any class name where X attribute is not listed in their "top 3" (or 4) attributes.

While I'm still wondering if there is such a feat, one thing I did find were things that require "class name, chosen path for class" as a requirement. That made me think that this might be the best requirement for spell focus: "Wizard, staff implement."

That removes the entire idea of having a point-buy penalty and just limits it to a wizard who has chosen a specific path for his class.

The only problem with this I can see is the feat that allows a wizard to use a second implement, but it would be easy enough to add the caveat that this feat didn't qualify you for spell focus, if that bothers anyone.

Your probably right that it's the only class specific feat that requires an unusual stat, but there aren't that many class specific feats in the game. To give you an example however, my radiant cleric would really like the +1 fire, +1 radiant damage feat and that requires 13 con, 13 dex. Because his spells are very close range, he'd also like some better armor and a shield, which means I need 13 strength. And if I want armor and shield spec at 11 (very important if your going to be using spells with close burst 3) I need dex 15 by level 11. Str is completely useless for him (as a radiant cleric, strength is a dump stat), while neither dex nor con are primary cleric stats.

Certainly if a wizard were getting feats important to his build for free, I don't think it's unreasonable that other classes do as well.

 

[Nifft]

If you remove the snarkiness from this post, there is secretly hidden what amounts to the best argument in favor of using Cha 13 given so far: making tieflings competitive wizards. They don't even have to try to get a Cha 12, which makes this an auto-feat for them at level 11.

What snarkyness? That, plus the Int bonus, plus the feat Hellfire Blood, plus the bonus to attack bloodied foes... Tieflings make awesome Wizards.

The fact that Astral Fire also needs Charisma is just icing, since it fits really well with Hellfire Blood.

Cheers, -- N

 

[evilbob]

Certainly if a wizard were getting feats important to his build for free, I don't think it's unreasonable that other classes do as well.

I agree with you in principle, but I don't see how your example applies: you're talking about a specific cleric path. You are choosing to ignore Str because you're making a radiant cleric. There are no wizard paths that involve Cha. Just one feat.

The closest counter-example to my question above that I can come up with is the fact that Uncanny Dodge requires 15 Wis and rogues don't normally favor Wis (in fact, they favor Cha) although they might favor this feat. However, the feat also doesn't say "Wis 15, Rogue" either.

 

[evilbob]

What snarkyness?

You don't think post #31 is snarky? I took it as snarky. I could be wrong.

 

[FadedC]

I agree with you in principle, but I don't see how your example applies: you're talking about a specific cleric path. You are choosing to ignore Str because you're making a radiant cleric. There are no wizard paths that involve Cha. Just one feat.

While this is true, I'm still taking feats that are very valuable for a certain class, and putting points into stats that give little to no benefit as a result. It's no different then what the wizard is doing, even if the wizard is taking a wizard specific feat. The only difference is that the wizard is getting a feat that's so powerful they didn't want to give it to any other class (because I'd certainly be taking it with my cleric if I could).

And there are no cleric paths that require either dex or con either, but still the +1 radiant and fire damage feat requires that.

 

[Mengu]

The fact that Astral Fire also needs Charisma is just icing, since it fits really well with Hellfire Blood.

Too bad they don't stack, which makes Astral Fire redundant for a Tiefling Wizard at heroic tier, and only marginally useful at Paragon.

 

[evilbob]

And there are no cleric paths that require either dex or con either, but still the +1 radiant and fire damage feat requires that.

I still disagree above, but this is a very good example. I would list maybe Con as the "4th" cleric attribute, but Dex seems pretty clearly outside a cleric's bounds and would qualify as a "5th" attribute.