Spell Penetration is kinda bla

[Jdvn1]

...and isn't a dragon's mobility, spell casting power, and AC vs AoOs nice? Unless we're talkin' about a white dragon wyrmling......

I think yer reaching on the dragon example, bub.

*shrug* Worked well against the dragon I fought against. I think we were a 12th level party at the time. The fighter had just deal an amazing amount of damage to the dragon, so he was more worried about the fighter than the Cleric. I wouldn't be surprised if the DM just doesn't run dragons well -- he's not the greatest of DMs.

In any event, creatures with SR tend to be intelligent. Intelligent creatures might (or might not-true enough) decide that hitting the guy casting a full-round spell would be a good idea. No need for a Spellcraft check.

...and several of these guys with SR have a teleport or dimension door -like power. Who cares where the silly fighters are?

Again, most creatures I've seen go after the arcane casters before the divine casters. If I saw a Cleric casting a full-round spell, I'd first guess Summon Monster. Which wouldn't really intimidate me, off hand.

Or: the BBEG casts Obscuring Mist so that you can't target him when yer finished with the spell. Ouch; a 4th level spell countered with a 1st level one. The "Wall" spells might be even more fun.

Etc, etc, etc.

Tell ya what: have yer DM contact me. He and I will be able to fix this problem.....

Our DM isn't usually that creative. Not that I couldn't just move out of the way -- Obscuring Mist only postpones my spell one round. If he ever got online, I'd ask him to go to ENWorld in a heartbeat. I'm sure he could get lots of good ideas through here.

 

[Jdvn1]

Off-Topic:

Don't be afraid of AoOs, bad guys!!! Take out the wizard quickly!

Thank goodness the Cleric with the decent AC is casting Lower Spell Resistance, not the Wizard. If I were a Wizard, I'd cast spells to give me a miss chance first, or find some other way to protect myself. Fly maybe, unless they can too.

 

[Jdvn1]

Our party's Sor 12 just leveled up, and is preping for tonight's game. I've been telling him to switch out a spell to get Assay Resistance (Sor/Wiz 4), and not bother with the Spell Penetration feat.

I've laid out my reasoning ("analysis") above.

....but now some of you have got me thinking. Do y'all really think Lower Resistance is better?

I think it depends. One main caster? Assay Resistance. More than one caster? Lower Spell Resistance. As a Druid, you have flexibility in casting and Wildshaping. If you prefer to Wildshape, casting spells only once in a while, then the Sor should probably go Assay Resistance.

 

[Trainz]

Thank goodness the Cleric with the decent AC is casting Lower Spell Resistance, not the Wizard. If I were a Wizard, I'd cast spells to give me a miss chance first, or find some other way to protect myself. Fly maybe, unless they can too.

Indeed...

Before overland flight, casting fly is an action waster. I feel that the ultimate arcanist is one that can be on the offensive from round one.

So... overland flight for wizard (before that, barring specific magic items, he's SOL), and Draconic Flight for sorceror.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I think a big part of this is:

Penetrate spell resistance works at the same time as assay resistance and spell vulnerablility.

IOW - having both (or even all three) can STILL give you benefits. Especially if you're (say) level 15 and fighting a pit fiend. SR 32. Spell vulnerability = sr 17. You still need to roll if you don't have penetrate Spell resistance. With assay resistance, you'd still need to roll even if you had greater penetration.

 

[Nail]

We had our meeting last night, so I thought I'd post what we decided.

The Sor 12/Clr 1 will take Assay Resistance. As he has lots of "direct damage" spells, he's really the one that needs the adaptability (and survivability!) that the swift action casting time provides.

The Clr 13 (me) will take Lower Spell Resistance. I have a high AC, excellent Concentration skill, and I tend to buff the party or summon monsters, rather than attack directly. The one round casting time won't be a big deal, and I'll only have to use it when both our sorcerer and our psion start having difficulties with SR.

Looks like great minds think alike! Thanks for the discussion.

 

[Nail]

I wouldn't be surprised if the DM just doesn't run dragons well -- he's not the greatest of DMs.

That's too bad. And it seems you've told him about ENWorld, but he hasn't made it online......

Ouch.

Aside: being a DM, especially for higher level PC, is hard! There's _lots_ of things to keep track of...and meanwhile the PCs only have to keep track of numero uno. It's not surprising a few DMs miss a few tricks.

Being online, and confering with other DMs, is a matter of survival!

 

[Thanee]

Sor 12/Clr 1

Charm Domain? That's pretty nifty for sorcerers.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Al'Kelhar]

Indeed...

Before overland flight, casting fly is an action waster. I feel that the ultimate arcanist is one that can be on the offensive from round one.

So... overland flight for wizard (before that, barring specific magic items, he's SOL), and Draconic Flight for sorceror.

I'll draw this thread a little off-topic, and state the obvious: overland flight grants you only average manoeuvrability. That means you must move at least 20 feet (4 squares) every round or you fall 150'. You can't hover, and ascending, descending and turning have some considerable limitations. And the funny thing about flying manoeuvrability is that it requires you to be flying in a particular direction and hence facing in that direction - not like ground or aquatic movement. You can't lob a spell over your back. A wizard with overland flight is fine outdoors, but the spell has some significant limitations indoors - unless your DM is lenient on the whole flying manoeuvrability thing. I know I'm not.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[schulerta]

Talking about using Arcane Mastery:

Only if the DM is lenient enough to let you use it in combat, because the feat alone does not allow it.

The prelude to the feat says:

You are quick and certain in your efforts to defeat the arcane defenses and spells of others.

Then what is the feat for than to take 10 on caster level checks to overcome SR and Dispel Magic checks?

Troy