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<blockquote data-quote="Hawken" data-source="post: 4603613" data-attributes="member: 23619"><p>I kind of like where you're going with this--I'm still trying to wrap my head around it, so I'm not 100% sold--but it still has the problem of an extra roll or rolls (like in the Tordek example, 10 extra d20 rolls). </p><p></p><p>Instead, why not try to set it up so that the Damage Avoidance (DA) is based on the target's AC or saving throw.</p><p></p><p>So, for the Tordek example, he has the arrow deflection on his shield. I wouldn't necessarily call it a minor effect since it scales with the person's reflex save. For that particular enchantment, I suggest you factor in the base reflex save to the AC, like this:</p><p></p><p>Tordek has an AC of 20, his base reflex save is +4. His shield will deflect, 1/round, any missile that would hit him with an attack (total) of 20-24. If the attack is 25+, the missile hits normally. </p><p></p><p>The benefit is that the power kicks in automatically without an extra roll having to be made by either the attacker or the defender. Like the enchantment, it basically improves with the reflex mod of the target, so its value is not locked in and doesn't become obsolete as the character gains levels and faces progressively tougher attacks. </p><p></p><p>SR could work the same way. </p><p></p><p>Example: Kerrick the Drow Necromancer has a Ref save total of +10 and Moderate (50%) SR. He is subject to a Lightning Bolt spell. The save DC is 20. He is affected no matter what he rolls for his save, he either takes full damage (on an 11-19) or half damage (on a 20-30). The range of his SR is determined by his Ref save (+10) and a d20 roll (1-20). </p><p></p><p>His SR has a 50% chance of protecting him completely from the spell. So, the spread of the SR (50% of d20) is 10 points. Go "down" 5 points from his Refl (+10) plus 10 (half of d20; 50%), which is 15 and go "up" 10 points from there. This gives you an SR range of 15-24. So, when Kerrick rolls his saving throw, the following happens:</p><p></p><p>* On a result of 11-14, his SR fails AND his save fails--he takes full damage from a solid hit. </p><p>* On a 15-19 (his SR works and he takes no damage), though he would normally have failed his save--the lightning bolt is a "direct hit" but has no effect. </p><p>* On a 20-24 (his SR works and he takes no damage), though he would have made his save--the lightning bolts is an indirect hit, a glancing blow. </p><p>* On a 25-30 (his SR fails but his save is made and he takes half damage). The lightning is still an indirect hit, he avoids the worst of it, but it still powers through his SR.</p><p></p><p>That seems to cover the idea pretty well, providing for damage avoidance and SR without requiring additional rolls. </p><p></p><p>Other things could be tweaked to fall in place here. Evasion is basically SR, just against Reflex save effects. Treat it like moderate (50%) SR, meaning the roll would have to be an 11 or higher to work. If you used it in the above example, an 11-19 would mean that the evasion doesn't work since the save failed, he takes full damage (evasion does require a successful save). On a 20, he makes his save but the evasion does not work, he takes half damage. On a 21-30, he makes his save, but the evasion works and he takes no damage.</p><p></p><p>Improved Evasion could be treated like Major SR (75%). In the above example, it would protect 15 times out of 20 (75% of the time). So to figure the 75% spread. Start at the Reflex save (+10 or 10) and go "up" 3 points to 13. From 13 your spread extends 15 so the SR range is 13-28. So if Kerrick were hit by the same bolt but had Improved Evasion, his save would look like this:</p><p></p><p>* On an 11-12, he fails his save AND his Improved Evasion does NOT work. He is hit directly and takes full damage. </p><p>* On a 13-19, he fails his save BUT his IE works, so he takes half damage. An otherwise direct hit that was mostly avoided.</p><p>* On a 20-28, he makes his save AND his IE works, so he takes no damage--he completely avoids the Lightning Bolt. </p><p>* On a 29-30, he makes his save BUT his IE fails. He still has the benefit of Evasion so he only takes 1/2 of 1/2 damage, or 1/4 damage.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hawken, post: 4603613, member: 23619"] I kind of like where you're going with this--I'm still trying to wrap my head around it, so I'm not 100% sold--but it still has the problem of an extra roll or rolls (like in the Tordek example, 10 extra d20 rolls). Instead, why not try to set it up so that the Damage Avoidance (DA) is based on the target's AC or saving throw. So, for the Tordek example, he has the arrow deflection on his shield. I wouldn't necessarily call it a minor effect since it scales with the person's reflex save. For that particular enchantment, I suggest you factor in the base reflex save to the AC, like this: Tordek has an AC of 20, his base reflex save is +4. His shield will deflect, 1/round, any missile that would hit him with an attack (total) of 20-24. If the attack is 25+, the missile hits normally. The benefit is that the power kicks in automatically without an extra roll having to be made by either the attacker or the defender. Like the enchantment, it basically improves with the reflex mod of the target, so its value is not locked in and doesn't become obsolete as the character gains levels and faces progressively tougher attacks. SR could work the same way. Example: Kerrick the Drow Necromancer has a Ref save total of +10 and Moderate (50%) SR. He is subject to a Lightning Bolt spell. The save DC is 20. He is affected no matter what he rolls for his save, he either takes full damage (on an 11-19) or half damage (on a 20-30). The range of his SR is determined by his Ref save (+10) and a d20 roll (1-20). His SR has a 50% chance of protecting him completely from the spell. So, the spread of the SR (50% of d20) is 10 points. Go "down" 5 points from his Refl (+10) plus 10 (half of d20; 50%), which is 15 and go "up" 10 points from there. This gives you an SR range of 15-24. So, when Kerrick rolls his saving throw, the following happens: * On a result of 11-14, his SR fails AND his save fails--he takes full damage from a solid hit. * On a 15-19 (his SR works and he takes no damage), though he would normally have failed his save--the lightning bolt is a "direct hit" but has no effect. * On a 20-24 (his SR works and he takes no damage), though he would have made his save--the lightning bolts is an indirect hit, a glancing blow. * On a 25-30 (his SR fails but his save is made and he takes half damage). The lightning is still an indirect hit, he avoids the worst of it, but it still powers through his SR. That seems to cover the idea pretty well, providing for damage avoidance and SR without requiring additional rolls. Other things could be tweaked to fall in place here. Evasion is basically SR, just against Reflex save effects. Treat it like moderate (50%) SR, meaning the roll would have to be an 11 or higher to work. If you used it in the above example, an 11-19 would mean that the evasion doesn't work since the save failed, he takes full damage (evasion does require a successful save). On a 20, he makes his save but the evasion does not work, he takes half damage. On a 21-30, he makes his save, but the evasion works and he takes no damage. Improved Evasion could be treated like Major SR (75%). In the above example, it would protect 15 times out of 20 (75% of the time). So to figure the 75% spread. Start at the Reflex save (+10 or 10) and go "up" 3 points to 13. From 13 your spread extends 15 so the SR range is 13-28. So if Kerrick were hit by the same bolt but had Improved Evasion, his save would look like this: * On an 11-12, he fails his save AND his Improved Evasion does NOT work. He is hit directly and takes full damage. * On a 13-19, he fails his save BUT his IE works, so he takes half damage. An otherwise direct hit that was mostly avoided. * On a 20-28, he makes his save AND his IE works, so he takes no damage--he completely avoids the Lightning Bolt. * On a 29-30, he makes his save BUT his IE fails. He still has the benefit of Evasion so he only takes 1/2 of 1/2 damage, or 1/4 damage. [/QUOTE]
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