Spell ruling clarification

[Space Coyote]

Hello all.

I have encountered something recently that is really irking and I need clarification, verification and possibly discussion on the matter.

There are a few rules, spells or abilities that specify that the bonus applies to "Weapon damage". 2 examples are the Prayer spell:

You bring special favor upon yourself and your allies while bringing disfavor to your enemies. You and your each of your allies gain a +1 luck bonus on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saves, and skill checks, while each of your foes takes a –1 penalty on such rolls.

and the Ranger Favored Enemy ability:

The ranger gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against creatures of this type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.

However, one of my players keeps stating that in either WOTC errata or an alternate source book (one of the Complete books), the rules state that spells that require an attack roll are considered "weapons" and therefore any benefit (ability, spell, etc) that applies to "weapons" applies to spells as well. Ergo, Prayer and Ranger Favored bonus would apply to attacks like Scorching Ray and Melfs Acid Arrow. If this is correct, it seems to negate the point of specifying "weapon damage" in certain abilities.

Also, this player is stating that the feat Point Blank Shot (that gives +1 to hit and damage), grants the +1 damage on all spells that require a ranged attack roll (within 30' of course), even if they do not do actual damage. For example, hitting an enemy with Ray of Enfeeblement from point blank would also do +1 damage. Other players have argued that the +1 is "bonus" damage, so if you are not doing any damage, you dont get any "bonus" damage either.

I dont allow all of the Complete books in my games, because I dont have them. Can anyone confirm these "rulings"?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Your player is partially right.

Ray of Enfeeblement does no damage, and therefore does not benefit from any effect which increases damage.

Complete Arcane expands upon the PHB and additional clarifications from Tome & Blood. In short, if a spell requires an attack roll and does damage (defined as: hit point damage, ability damage, or ability drain), you can score critical hits with it and it benefits from things which improve weapon damage (like, for instance, PBS, Bard Song, etc.).

EDIT: As for specifying "weapon damage rolls," that rules out spells like ice storm, fireball, etc.

 

[Dross]

One other thing you should consider: Make the player SHOW you the ruling (otherwise it doesn't exist).

If it is not a book that you use, you don't have to follow it (you don't have to follow it anyway, but each to their own devices).

 

[Whimsical]

Yeah. He can buy you a copy of the book if he wants you to use the rules from them.

 

[Sejs]

Other players have argued that the +1 is "bonus" damage, so if you are not doing any damage, you dont get any "bonus" damage either.

The other players mentioned here are correct.

If I cast Ray of Exhaustion and the party's bard is currently singing Inspire Courage (+1), I get a +1 to the ray's attack roll, but I don't benefit from the attendent +1 damage because I'm making the target exhausted, not doing any damage.

Similar to what would happen if I crit on the Ray of Exhaustion's attack roll: nada.

 

[glass]

damage (defined as: hit point damage, ability damage, or ability drain)

Also negtive levels, I believe.

Otherwise, Patryn is spot on.


glass.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Good catch, glass.