Spell system based off of Book of Nine Swords - now with first revision

[Blue Sky]

Ok, I realize that the boards are swamped with new magic systems right now, but here it goes.

I'm trying to change the D&D spell system to something closer to the Book of Nine Swords. I've got the cleric and the first 2 spell levels down, so if anyone can take a look and give me some advice, I'd appreciate it.

I can't attach the files directly, so I'll come back and edit them in in a sec.

Edit: Ok, the cleric.doc is my changes to the cleric class, spell list changes.doc runs down the spell list, and spell type changes.doc goes over the different type of spells (like the swordsages boost, strike, counter, etc.)

I appreciate any help.

Edit 2: added the revision, here's the basic list of changes:

Removed the distinction between spells and prayers, and changed the names to more flavorful.
Added a note about only one aura at a time.
Changed blessings to one round/one minute, depending on casting time.
Added prayer book notations to the spell lists.
Deleted the “spell” category.
Deleted notes about learning two prayers instead of a spell.
Restored Spontaneous Healing to it's original wording.
Added Prayer book information.
Changed the rate of domain spells gained to one a level.
Changed auras so that you know all auras of a level you can cast.
Changed recovery mechanism to reflect wearing down the cleric.

 

[DreamChaser]

1) I like the idea. The concept of magic from the BoNS is an interesting one, opening up the idea of very open, free form magic users that can go all day but are somewhat more limited in their options. Additionally, the idea of Buffs as auras is sweet.

2) The cleric as swordsage makes less sense to me. I think that Crusader is a more logical opener. The cleric should not be able to choose which spells he has access to from the get go; his god decides that.

3) This system opens up the possiblity for infinite healing out of combat, which is a problem. I think that in order for this system to work, the cleric (and bard and druid) would need a cure reserve. A number of dice they have availabe each day to cure with (or a fixed number). If you think about it, a first level cleric has about 2x(1d8+1)+3 points = 14 pts on average of healing possible if he expends all of his resources healing. A 3rd level cleric has about 50 points on average (again spending all his resources). 5th = about 72 and 7th = 245. Of course the reality is, no cleric is ever actually going to use this full potential and the higher her level, the less likely she is to blow all of her spell power on healing.

Perhaps, a Healing reserve of 11 points per level for curing clerics and 8 points per level for inflicting clerics. She still casts any cure spells normally; the amount healed by each spell is subtracted from this reserve. When the pool is empty, she has reached the end of her capabilities.

If one didn't want to set such a firm limit, perhaps each cure spell cast past the reserve point is instead simply converting lethal damage into nonlethal.

DC

 

[starwed]

Curing out of combat isn't necessarily a problem. If you switch spellcasting to a ToB like system, then you're effectively saying that you always start each combat with full resources. It's a shift from resources per day to resources per encounter.

Btw, you might get more critique with PDFs than .docs. (Since you can just open a PDF in the browser. And if you happen to have open office, you can export any text document to a PDF.)

 

[DreamChaser]

Curing out of combat isn't necessarily a problem. If you switch spellcasting to a ToB like system, then you're effectively saying that you always start each combat with full resources. It's a shift from resources per day to resources per encounter.

Except cures, according to the above info, are prayers which can be used out of combat.

And ToB doesn't presume that characters begin each combat with full HP.

DC

 

[starwed]

And ToB doesn't presume that characters begin each combat with full HP.

Yup, it's balanced against normal D&D. Maybe I misinterpreted the original playes goal, but switching spellcasting to a per encounter basis seems like it will unavoidably change game balance.

 

[nobodez]

I like the idea, though I think the extended time on non-combat healing is a bit off (perhaps the noncombat healing is always maximized, while the in-combat healing is random). Oh, and I might just bump the spell levels up on the healing, and eliminate 0-level spells. There's no need to have a 0-level when you're changing to a system like this.

Oh, and it should really be based on the crusader system, rather then the swordsage system. Heck, this is actually a really good start, though a more complete system would change all the Core spellcasters to this system, and have different "schools" for different specialties. The Gentle Hand school for Cures and Status changes. The Grim Talon school for Inflicts and Undead creation. The Cosmic Voice school for Summons and Calls. The Nature's Bounty school for Animal and Plant related stuff. Of course, that may be too much of a "Flattery" of ToB.

Also, you may want to condense some spells together. Or, make it so every day a cleric can change their repertoire of spells, wait, you're dealing with slots again, frell. I just don't like the lack of versatility this gives a cleric. I'm note sure how to change that, but this feels more like a Sorcerer in character (limited spell selection) then a Cleric (versatility).

 

[Sadrik]

I like the concepts of the ToB. And I like the concept of moving them over to spells as well. Here are my ideas to make the system you have a little better.

Make all "spells" "prayers" for two reasons.
1. I like the distinction you put in where prayers being cast during an encounter are their listed casting time and out of an encounter they cast at 1 minute per spell level. Also, you dont lose them as readied when cast the long way. Basically, what you have listed as "spells " could follow the same rules for in combat casting and out of combat casting. So why not just tag them as prayers too.
2. Reserve the "spells" tag for arcane casters. Prayers just make sense for divine casters.

I would carefully consider which "spells" you want as boosts, and buffs. Boosts in some cases seem extremely weak and buffs in some cases seem extremely strong. In a couple cases I think you switched the effects of how you actually wanted them. Bane should be a Buff and doom should be a boost that effects your opponent.

Change Cure Minor Wounds to an automatic stabilize or a +10 on heal checks.

Also actually change the name of the "Buffs" to "Divine Auras". It will make a lot more sense when reading and gives them some much needed flavor over "buff".

Boosts could be renamed as "Combat Blessings" or simply "Blessings". Again much needed flavor boost.

So they would wind up with Prayers, Blessings and Divine Auras. Very flavorful.

 

[Sadrik]

Rather than:

Spontaneous Casting: A good cleric (or a neutral cleric of a good deity) can channel stored spell energy into healing spells that the cleric did not prepare ahead of time. At second level, the cleric can “lose” any prepared spell to cast a Cure Light Wounds. At 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, and 16th level, the cleric can instead cast a higher level Cure spell, as noted on the table above. An evil cleric (or a neutral cleric who worships an evil deity) casts Inflict spells instead.

Why not... have them cure/inflict 1d6+2 per cleric level. So a level 20 cleric can heal 20d6+40 damage. Then, delete all of the cure and inflict spells as spells they can prepare.

So, they sack readied spells to heal the listed amount of damage. Then, to limit it per day. They can only do it by using a turn attempt... This would literally be a function of their channeling positive or negative energy.

To make this work better a level progression for channeling (rather than have it be static number at first level). 1+cha at first, +1 per 2 levels thereafter?

As an interesting meta magic like twist- they could knock off xd6+x or burn more turn attempts to make it a mass version, ray, or cone.

Other healing spells would also have to be altered. Heal spell, the various fast healing spells etc.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

not bad.

What I did was remove the wizard/cleric lines and have adepts and acolytes, both casting any of the spells they wanted to learn.
I gave adepts a warlock-type eldrich blast, and acolytes a cone or burst radius damaging turn that hurts undead and outsiders.
Then I had a mana pool they can draw from to augment their spells a bit, with a way of slowly recharging the pool.
I also borrowed from someone else's posts and made the ongoing buffing spells keep mana that couldn't be recovered until the spell ran out or was dismissed.
Also, I made it a fullround action, costing 1 mana point per level to swap out a readied spell with another spell known.

I'm almost ready to start playtesting. Feel free to borrow any of this.

 

[Blue Sky]

Some good responses, here. Thanks. I'll try to hit each point in turn.

Also, you may want to condense some spells together. Or, make it so every day a cleric can change their repertoire of spells, wait, you're dealing with slots again, frell. I just don't like the lack of versatility this gives a cleric. I'm note sure how to change that, but this feels more like a Sorcerer in character (limited spell selection) then a Cleric (versatility).

The DM I'm making this for pointed out the same thing. We're thinking about giving the cleric a certain number of "prayers" known automatically, plus a few spells. I'll see what I can come up with in the first revision.

3) This system opens up the possiblity for infinite healing out of combat, which is a problem.

I should have said this earlier, but it's not a problem for me. As a matter of fact, it's what I'm looking for. I hate the idea of going into a dungeon, getting messed up the first battle, and then sitting around for 24 hours waiting for the cleric to get back spells.

Btw, you might get more critique with PDFs than .docs.

Good point. I'll make sure to do that in the first revision.

Make all "spells" "prayers" for two reasons.
1. I like the distinction you put in where prayers being cast during an encounter are their listed casting time and out of an encounter they cast at 1 minute per spell level. Also, you dont lose them as readied when cast the long way. Basically, what you have listed as "spells " could follow the same rules for in combat casting and out of combat casting. So why not just tag them as prayers too.

My DM has pointed out an oversight of mine. Any time you cast a spell, it starts an encounter. As such, there's probably no need for "out of encounter" spells. Simply giving them a way to refresh spells will allow the "extra healing" I was looking for.

2. Reserve the "spells" tag for arcane casters. Prayers just make sense for divine casters.

Also actually change the name of the "Buffs" to "Divine Auras". It will make a lot more sense when reading and gives them some much needed flavor over "buff".

Boosts could be renamed as "Combat Blessings" or simply "Blessings". Again much needed flavor boost.

So they would wind up with Prayers, Blessings and Divine Auras. Very flavorful.

This so stolen. Good advice.

Why not... have them cure/inflict 1d6+2 per cleric level. So a level 20 cleric can heal 20d6+40 damage. Then, delete all of the cure and inflict spells as spells they can prepare.

So, they sack readied spells to heal the listed amount of damage. Then, to limit it per day. They can only do it by using a turn attempt... This would literally be a function of their channeling positive or negative energy.

To make this work better a level progression for channeling (rather than have it be static number at first level). 1+cha at first, +1 per 2 levels thereafter?

As an interesting meta magic like twist- they could knock off xd6+x or burn more turn attempts to make it a mass version, ray, or cone.

Other healing spells would also have to be altered. Heal spell, the various fast healing spells etc.

I like the idea of basing the power of spontaneous healing of of the cleric level. Gives them a reason not to multiclass. I also like your meta-healing ideas. I'll put those on the back burner until I get the basic system hammered out.

Well, I'm going to go back, do some rewrites, and I'll post something either tonight or tomorrow for the first revision. Thanks!