Spelljammer Spelljammer: A 5E Fan Conversion

[guildsbounty]

So, as the thread title implies...I am actively working on converting the AD&D Spelljammer campaign setting up to 5th Edition. To anyone who isn't familiar with Spelljammer, it's basically D&D in Space...it operates off of a magic-influenced Ptolemaic astronomical model, where Solar Systems are contained within vast Crystal Spheres that float within The Phlogiston. Spelljammer serves to unite all of the different settings of D&D by simply making each setting, and all of its gods, trouble, and unique features, into a Solar System. Dragonlance, Greyhawk, The Forgotten Realms, Eberron...all are represented. And for travel, the setting introduces spelljammers, which are magic-powered spacecraft.

As far as the conversion process goes, I have written up rough versions of multiple new playable races, converted the spells from the Core Spelljammer Book (I have another book or two that need the same treatment), and started in going back and forth between Lore write-ups (so people don't have to dig through all the old books looking for the answer to a 'What is this?' question) and general environmental rules for life in space such as gravity, atmosphere, movement, and other special rules that apply once you take to the vastness of space. I'm doing most of my work in Google Docs, and once I get the rules (including combat rules) somewhere I like them, I'll gladly open the file for viewing and feedback while I finish putting together the expanded Monster Manual for Spelljammer, convert ships and equipment, tidy up the extra bits and pieces, and flesh out the Lore.

Now, for clarity, I am in no way affiliated with WotC and have no intention of trying to wiggle my way into making money off of this...I'm converting Spelljammer to 5E because I want to play Spelljammer in 5E. I figure if I'm going to do all this work, I might as well share it.

So, this brings me to the point of this thread, which is three-fold.

First off, I wanted to see how much interest there was in seeing Spelljammer brought up to 5E. This is partly to see how much feedback I'm likely to get on the latter two points of this thread...and also because interest in something I'm working on is a great motivator,

Secondly, there some rules or bits of the setting that I have found myself questioning as I convert up to try to maintain the dynamic of 5E, and wanted to bring them up for broader discussion to see what other D&D players think about them. Whether I should keep them, trash them, or alter them. So, to get this started, here are two rules regarding Divine Magic that I'd like your thoughts on. Again, these are rules that exist in the original campaign setting.

Divine Magic in The Phlogiston: The gods have no influence in The Phlogiston (def: the space that you travel through when moving from one Solar System to another, i.e. outside of the Crystal Sphere of any particular system), and thus prayers from within it are simply not heard. As a result, a Cleric or Paladin (or any future class that prays for their spells) are unable to prepare any spells of third level or higher while in The Phlogiston. They still have all of their spell slots and can cast a spell in a higher slot if they wish...but they may not prepare any spells that are of higher natural level than second. There is no workaround for this.

Divine Magic in Other Spheres: A god only has influence in a System in which they are worshiped. Thus, if a Divine caster prays for spells in a System in which their god has no influence, their god cannot grant them spells. As in The Phlogiston, this means that a Divine Spellcaster cannot prepare any spells of third level or higher (though they retain their spell slots as normal). There are two workarounds to this rule in the form of a pair of new 2nd Level spells: Contact Home Power allows a Divine Caster to create a connection to their home Sphere that lasts for one week, while this connection is open they pray and receive spells as if they were in their home Sphere. Detect Powers (cast on a Crystal Sphere) allows a Divine Caster to detect if there are friendly gods and/or other powers within that are similar enough to their actual god (in terms of purview) that they'd be willing to cooperate; if so, the Cleric may pray to that god for their spells whenever they are in that Sphere...additionally, the spell will let them know if their own god is revered within that Sphere.

I call these two rules into question because, while they make perfect sense thematically, they impose a limitation on Divine Spellcasters that doesn't have a parallel for any other sort of Caster. So...I'd like your thoughts on them; keep them, toss them, or change them?

And that brings me to my third point of discussion...the ships. Maybe it's only me...but I look at the bulk of the ships in Spelljammer (especially the Human and Elvish ones) and think they look rather ridiculous. The Tradesman, the Hammerhead, the Monarch...just google image search them. So, I wanted to see if it's just me or if there are ships that people would rather they got, at minimum, a reskinning when they were updated to 5E...if not left out entirely. That's most of what I want to focus on with ship design for this discussion, because I know the ships have some other issues that I need to resolve (like laughably inaccurate tonnage...per the RAW, a Major Helm can only move up to 100 tons of ship, and lists a Galleon as weighing in at 40 tons...despite the fact that an actual galleon weighed more like 300 tons.), but those are things I can handle myself without any trouble.

So, there you have it...I'm working on Spelljammer...let me know what you think.

~GB

 

[Duan'duliir]

Maybe introduce some gods to the Phlogiston? Or allow Contact home power to work there?
And perhaps lessen the limit to 6th level and above, rather than 3rd?

I'm just throwing some ideas out with very little prior experience, as I have never actually experienced any D&D other than 5th Edition.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to see an adaption of a prior setting like this one to 5th edition.

 

[Rod Staffwand]

You could ditch the cleric restrictions and be just fine. I don't remember any great thematic elements of the setting being about clerics lacking access to spells. I don't think it's an integral element.

You could hybrid it a bit and require divine casters to have a holy symbol to serve as a mystic link back to their deity or some such. You keep the idea of being far from your god, but limit the restriction to one that is very easily manageable and thematic.

As for ship tonnage, have you ever tried to weigh a ship in space? Things are bound to be a bit off...

 

[jadrax]

Personally, I would just make the Cleric Restrictions an optional rule for those people who wanted to use them, and then never worry about them again.

 

[Kiax]

A historical sailing ship has its size or tonnage based off how many barrels or "tonnes" it could carry. A spelljamer ton is based off how many 5 x5 squares of volume it takes. The measurement is not the same.

 

[Ath-kethin]

I have to ask: if you aren't willing to embrace the silliness of Spelljammer, why are you doing this?

A Giant Space Hamster is pretty ridiculous too, but I don't see it on your list of "should I ignore this?" questions. Never mind the Giff.

I myself wouldn't change anything in the conversion. Yiuvae doing it for you, not for us, and you certainly don't owe us anything; if you want to ditch the cleric restrictions and do a Michael Bay update to the Spelljamming ships, have a blast.

But my suggestion would be to keep everything as it is, as much as possible. Just like in 2e, a DM can change whatever they like in their own games, but altering the underlying theological functioning changes the way the setting works and is likely to have unforseen repercussions down the line. Deriving from a suggestion above, maybe you could include a sidebar discussing the repercussions of the clerical magic restrictions.

At the end of the day, its your work and you can do what you want with it.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

If you can sell (I don't mean monetarily, of course) your conversion to me, you'll have done a very difficult task, since I'm a tough critic for that sort of thing. (I do like some fan conversions--just not most of them.)

In order to provide good feedback, the first thing I need to know is what your conversion philosophy is. My conversion philosophy would be to take the general assumptions of 5e, take the sorts of conversions that WotC has themselves already done, and find ways to make yours look like theirs.

So, for example, 5e doesn't put any restrictions on using class features. Rogues can sneak attack anything, once you become a cleric you can deny your god without losing your class abilities, and the only reason a wizard can't cast spells in armor is because he probably isn't proficient in it. Putting any sort of restrictions (such as the Phlogiston or foreign spheres ones) on a cleric or anyone else is out of harmony with 5e rules, so it shouldn't be included in a conversion.

Another example would be firearms. The DMG has rules for firearms. Making rules that work differently would not be keeping with current design. Same goes for ballista and catapult, rules already exist.

Another example of how to screw it up would be to translate over too many fiddly little details, like calculations for air bubbles. Either use an extremely simplified method of determining how long air lasts, or just say (like someone suggested either here or on the WotC forum) that space is breathable/filled with air and be done with it.

Remember to only make distinctions that are significant enough to matter. 5e pruned the weapon tables down, and eliminated all the little plus thises and minus thoses. So if there isn't a meaningful difference between the stats of a particular ship and one of the ships in the DMG, then don't make it statistically different. Rather, just list examples of different ships that use those stats. Maybe say something like "Sailing Ship (includes coaster, cog, caravel...)".

Now that I've really focused on all the ways you need to start with 5e assumptions and bring the prior setting into it (rather than forcing 5e to try to fit the setting), I'm going to detour to the opposite angle. A good conversion doesn't jettison any original thematic material, and doesn't make the dang setting look different. So no, you absolutely should not ditch the bug/animal ships. It's a thing. Now, you could kick them up a notch and do some sort of heavy-metal industrial conversion, as long at the basic form of a tradesman or what-have-you was the same. Add whatever artistic flair you want, as long as you don't ditch what makes it look like its own theme. That being said, you have no imperative to convert anything from outside the earlier material (original boxed set, plus anything else you like). If you think the ships that came out in product 28 were stupid looking, skip them! Stick to core for a good start, and you can always add your own expansion products. Another example of what not to do would be to ditch the Phlogiston, or the Crystal Spheres, or the neogi, etc.

One additional point. If there are things that can be fixed, then fixing them isn't going to be a problem. For instance, don't go with spatial tons for ships (or hull points, or any of that nonsense). Just stick to the 5e ship rules. If you need to determine the relative size of ships, maybe use the rules of treating huge or gargantuan objects as a collection of Large objects. You could codify approximately how big such large objects are for ship purposes, and then in individual person vs. ship combat that could be used. But when ships are going after each other, just use the normal hp and damage threshold. Maybe add one simple table for critical hits or something similar, and call it good.

And remember to ask yourself, "would this be how they did it officially?" If the answer is no...well, that's more of your own artistic rendition "based on" Spelljammer, than a solid conversion. For example--there a no rules about the movement of ships. So we need those. (You might as well include water movement while you're at it for completeness.) But when you start making those rules and are beginning to get a bit complex in your mind, just remember how they handle creature and spell flight in 5e. There are no maneuverability classes, no minimum velocities, no facing, no climbing penalty, etc. So, while you might reasonably create some sorts of elements like that for ships, don't overdo it. Add one or two considerations that get across the feel of some ships being more unwieldy than others, in as simple and basic a way as you can. Something like good maneuverability ships can move whenever and however they want, while bad maneuverability ships can only move before or after their action (ie, can't use "splitting up your move" basic concept from the PHB). That may be more simple than you need to go, but you get the idea.

Summary: For a good 5e conversion, I cannot stress enough 1) Do not replace rules, 2) Do not increase granuality, 3) Do not add restrictions, and 4) Do not substantially rewrite lore.

A historical sailing ship has its size or tonnage based off how many barrels or "tonnes" it could carry. A spelljamer ton is based off how many 5 x5 squares of volume it takes. The measurement is not the same.

Yes, this. It's a different thing.

 

[guildsbounty]

Thanks for the input so far... my philosophy up to this point is to make the conversion as direct (and thorough) as possible, with some alterations to simplify things. I definitely appreciate the thoughts on 'keep true to the setting,' and that helps settle my opinion on the matter. The way I will probably approach things like 'Air Calculations' is the same way the MM approaches hit points; provide the dice-roll information if someone wants to roll it, but also list the 'Average' for anyone who doesn't want to.

I'm presently leaning towards still maintaining maneuverability class as a measurement of how quickly a ship can turn (though I'll likely drop the acceleration rules and simplify it to 'A ship can use up to its SR in movement points on a turn...they didn't make complete sense with the described lore in the first place.). And I'll likely keep this because while a Man-O-War and a Flitter, both equipped with a Major Helm, both crewed by a lvl 20 Caster have a SR of 10, it doesn't make sense for them to be equally agile.

EDIT: Also, for those asking what the 'thematic element' was that dictated Clerics had a hard time praying for spells in the Phlogiston... You cannot access the Astral Sea from The Phlogiston. At all. Portals, teleportation, summoning, and astral projection simply don't work out there. And, since the gods live in the Astral...it would be hard to contact them when you can't actually interact with the place that connects where you are to where they are.

 

[Anakzar]

I tried to play spelljammer in 5e but failed due to my players not being all that interested in the setting.

A lot of the ship's tonnages don't even match up with other ships with the same size maps... Theory is that there were many writers and no single committee tying them all together.

The Clerical spells etc. was a thing in spell jammer and should remain... There were ways to bring a god's influence into a sphere(100 worshipers) Also Icons that stored spell levels. A cleric that moves to a new sphere might drive a whole story trying to bring his religion with him... great campaign fodder.

Paladins no longer really use divine energy so you might allow them to gain spells as normal... The 5e paladin's spells are driven more by his conviction in his own righteousness.

 

[Kiax]

I remember about the size disparities. For example the Nautilus had almost as much room as the Hammership. There was a guy that recalculated the ships based on volume.
If you used a system like the 5e ships, it would make that volume issue moot. It would also make it easier to add different ships. Not sure how ship combat would relate though.