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Spells that could be improved / better designed

Kryx

Explorer
I disagree, casters are pretty in-line in 5e
Casters are not quite as quadratic as before, but they are still far ahead in terms of versatility, utility, and burst damage. The tradeoff is they have less sustainable damage (doesn't matter as much in the adventuring day setup) and less defenses (AC and HP).

Martials definitely have their place in every party and I'm not arguing they suck. I'm arguing against buffing caster damage as it is unnecessary.
 

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mcintma

First Post
Casters are not quite as quadratic as before, but they are still far ahead in terms of versatility, utility, and burst damage. The tradeoff is they have less sustainable damage (doesn't matter as much in the adventuring day setup) and less defenses (AC and HP).

Martials definitely have their place in every party and I'm not arguing they suck. I'm arguing against buffing caster damage as it is unnecessary.

I would say casters are also balanced by things like Legendary Res, Magic Res, Energy Res, Evasion-type abilities, concentration, counterspell, generally weaker spells vs.older editions, low slots ... but I agree they don't need a damage boost (though some spells do, I'm looking at you Horrid Wilting). 5e really favors walking up to something and doing a ton of straight-up HP damage more than older eds., there is almost nothing that prevents such damage anymore as DR is no longer a thing once you have a magic weapon (level 3-5 in most campaigns?)
 

Corwin

Explorer
I find Silence to be quite overpowered for a second level spell if cast wisely. Given that most spells require some vocalization it's quite an easy way to disable a high-level wizard (as Rath Modar discovered recently) turning what should be an exciting battle into a rout. Unless we're doing it wrong?
Do you allow it to be mobile in any way? Like cast on an object in the way the darkness spell is allowed to be?
 

robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
Supporter
Do you allow it to be mobile in any way? Like cast on an object in the way the darkness spell is allowed to be?

I did allow it to be mobile - but combined with a very poor initiative roll by Modar it was quite debilitating. In hindsight it shouldn't have been mobile. But it would have been hard for him to move out of the range of it anyway given the quarters he was in.
 

Corwin

Explorer
I did allow it to be mobile - but combined with a very poor initiative roll by Modar it was quite debilitating. In hindsight it shouldn't have been mobile. But it would have been hard for him to move out of the range of it anyway given the quarters he was in.
Confined space is generally a massive detriment to spellcasters. So that, combined with silence is indeed going to add up to a hosing on most casters. Sure. Though a single round sacrificing his action to move past all the enemies to get out of the area of effect is usually all it takes. Assuming he had enemies in his face.

But you should definitely consider keeping silence a fixed area as intended. For times when confined space isn't compounding the issue. IMO, of course.
 

robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
Supporter
Confined space is generally a massive detriment to spellcasters. So that, combined with silence is indeed going to add up to a hosing on most casters. Sure. Though a single round sacrificing his action to move past all the enemies to get out of the area of effect is usually all it takes. Assuming he had enemies in his face.

But you should definitely consider keeping silence a fixed area as intended. For times when confined space isn't compounding the issue. IMO, of course.

Yep - I should have looked it up - but I didn't want to interrupt the flow of the session... Inexperience bites me in the behind again :)
 

Gadget

Adventurer
Contagion never did what you thought it did. It is fine as written.

The spell as written in the PHB disagrees with you. If your point is that the spell was intended to be a non combat spell, then fair enough, but it is not written that way. The spell uses the word afflict for the immediate effect upon a melee spell attack (not infect). When one succeeds on three saves they 'recover' from the disease, if they fail three saves the disease's effects last for the 'duration' (as opposed to not lasting the duration?). Notice that it is not: 'the disease takes effect and lasts the duration'. If the devs really thought that this meant what they now say it does, they need to revisit English class.

So, that is fine if we want it to be a non combat, flavor spell, though I would point out that the effects listed for each disease are specifically combat related. Furthermore, it is unique in that most multiple save spells are either a duration meter (Hold Person and many others) to end effects already in place, or have progressively worse effects upon a failed save (Flesh To Stone), and that purely non-combat spells that have detrimental effects on the target tend to have a longer casting time (Geas, Imprisonment). But to have to jump through the hoops of a melee spell attack (which usually implies combat, or at least rolling for initiative), plus the whole three failed saves seems a bit much, even for an out of combat flavor spell, particularly for a fifth level spell slot.

Now, I will concede that this may be one of the spells that is best used against the PCs, even relatively low level PCs. You could probably safely use this against first level PCs for flavor/plot reasons. Even if they fail all three saves, it just means that they have to quest for someone with a Lesser Restoration, if indeed they don't already have someone capable of casting it in the party. Though why an NPC BBE would waste a 5th level slot on this remains an exercise for the DM. I can think of several plot, flavor reasons. There is also the idea of using it as a monster ability: an add on to the bite/claw/slam attack of the Death Hound/Dread Wraith/Hel lizard.

As for Barkskin, I agree that there is nothing 'broken' about the spell mechanically, it is just written in a weird way. I think I might just call it 'Warding of the Trees' or 'Wild Warding' and keep the effects the same.

Jump - But I want the sound effect dagnabit! Seriously, I guess my main problem is that it is just a little to fiddly for it to be worth it. I want to be able to just do some cool jumping (within reason) without having to go through all the jumping rules.

Blade Ward - I guess I agree. I was on the fence about this one and had never seen anyone take it.

True Strike - I still think it needs help.
 

Kryx

Explorer
The spell as written in the PHB disagrees with you.
"At the end of each of the target's turns, it must make a Constitution saving throw. After failing three of these saving throws, the disease's effects last for the duration, and the creature stops making these saves."

I'm not sure how much more clear the book can be. You may disagree with the spell (and I probably do a bit), but the intention was crystal clear imo.


Jump should be striding and springing - combine it with longstrider and it's much better.
 

Gadget

Adventurer
"At the end of each of the target's turns, it must make a Constitution saving throw. After failing three of these saving throws, the disease's effects last for the duration, and the creature stops making these saves."

I'm not sure how much more clear the book can be. You may disagree with the spell (and I probably do a bit), but the intention was crystal clear imo.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. This is a far from crystal clear as you can get. You are hanging your hat on the word after, which indicates a time when the diseases effects last for the duration, not when they start, particularly in context with the rest of the spell. How does one 'recover' from a disease they were not suffering from? What does the word afflict mean? I think you will find the definition enlightening.
 

Kryx

Explorer
Afflict is a flavorful word which means affect. The very next sentence discusses how that affliction manifests (the saving throws).

Are there any other spells that talk about repeating saves before they talk about the result of the effect? None of that I know of.
 

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