Spellsword - is it weak?

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Well, I remember that the 3.0 Spellsword was good for five levels-- allowing you 0% ASF in mithril chain mail. It would be a good addition to a Fighter/Wizard/Eldritch Knight build.

Going for ten levels in Spellsword is just silly.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Heh. When I first saw this thread, I thought "Huh, I wrote a thread with the same name once." Didn't know it was the same thread!

Anyway, it's nice to hear the one in the Complete Warrior is slightly buffed. Nice. IMO, though, the Eldritch Knight should be avoided like the plague. It's gone too far.

yeah after playing with it for a year this prestige class needed a small increase, but eldritch knight wont find its way into any more of my games, way too good IMO and so far even IME.

 

[Flyspeck23]

Heh. When I first saw this thread, I thought "Huh, I wrote a thread with the same name once." Didn't know it was the same thread!

That reminds me of the "Kevin Smith incident" over at RPGnet Forums. The thread was named "Kevin Smith died", but then it was stated quite clearly that it's not the Clerks/Mallrats Kevin Smith, but the Hercules/Xena Kevin Smith (who played Ares). People went crazy on this poor guy (who obviously didn't know who Silent Bob is) because the thread title gave them such a shock.

What has that got to do with this thread? Easy: the thread re-emerged a year later, and people went crazy again, because they thought: this time Silent Bob died.



Conclusion: some things better stay dead (no pun intended).

 

[dreaded_beast]

Someone mentioned the Complete Warrior Spellsword, which in my opinion, is MUCH better than the Tome and Blood version.

If I remember correctly -

Fighter BAB
Cleric Saves
Caster level increase every other level
Every other level, your armor penalty improves
Putting spells in sword is better - you can put any spell in it now, i think, no level restriction

Funny thing is, is that a few months ago, they posted the 3.5 version of Epic classes, one of them being the Spellsword. Now the 3.5 Epic spellsword is based on 3.0 Tome and Blood and not the 3.5 Complete Warrior Spellsword.

Funny, huh?

 

[Thistleknot]

After having played a Spellsword, I don't think that the class is weak at all.

I think a little differently on my Spellsword build, however. It's not about caster levels, but choice of spells and how much you can rely on them.

Generally, I go Fighter 2/Sorcerer8/Spellsword 10.

A spellsword is only a fighter with a couple of neat tricks with spells. For an effective spellsword, you really need a tight group of spells that you can rely on over and over all day long. A sorcerer is ideal for this, with its large number of spells to cast per day. You should concentrate on the spells that increase your fighting prowess and survivability. You should deal most of your damage with your weapon, rather than spells, so concentrate on that.

I have a spellsword that is currently the only frontline fighter in a Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil game, and she does beautifully as an Aristocrat/Sorcerer/Spellsword.

Mithral armor is a must have for a Spellsword, because with Cat's Grace, Shield and armor, you can get a stratospheric AC. True Strike combined with judicious application of Power Attack makes for truly obscene damage, especially when used in conjunction with Channel Spell. You can be near impossible to hit and deal some impressive damage.

But people overlook the coolest feature of the Channel Spell ability as well.

It's a Supernatural Ability.

Therefore, it's not subject to spell resistance.

Metamagic Feats do not raise the effective level of spells.

You can channel Empowered or Maximized Magic Missiles throught the channel spell ability (because they're still first level spells) and they get no save and are not subject to spell resistance checks. Guaranteed extra damage against just about everything.

That's pretty cool.

For a good spellsworld, all you have to do is pick a few good combat feats, some good metamagic feats, and have a tight spell list. Everything is easy from there. You may not have a high caster level, or access to higher level spells, but you have a brutally effective fighter/wizard combination, with your spells shoring up weaknesses and allowing you greater mobility and fighting prowess.

But that's just my two cents. Take it as you will.

Thank you for your time.

 

[FireLance]

Not to thrash Thistleknot's analysis or anything, but the revised Spellsword in Complete Warrior is different. Opponents now get their normal saves and spell resistance to channeled spells, but at the highest level, you can store two spells in weapon at a time (each is channeled seperately and takes up one of your up to 5 daily uses of the Channel Spell ability, though). Effectively, with preparation, this means you can hit your opponent with two spells at the same time that you're carving him up with a full attack.

 

[AnthonyJ]

I agree that it's somewhat weak.

Compare a Fighter2/Wizard8/Spellsword 10 to a Fighter6/Wizard 14:

And in 3.5, compare either one to a Fighter2/Wizard8/Eldritch Knight 10. Spellcasting level 18, Hit Points 70.5, BAB +16, F +15, R +5, W +9, and 3 feats.

 

[DiFier]

Mithral armor is a must have for a Spellsword,

Agreed

But people overlook the coolest feature of the Channel Spell ability as well.

It's a Supernatural Ability.

Therefore, it's not subject to spell resistance.

This isn't how we have been playing it. the ability to channel the spell is a supernatural ability the spell itself is not. The creature still gets spell resistance vs. the spell. it is just delivered in a different manner.

Metamagic Feats do not raise the effective level of spells. You can channel Empowered or Maximized Magic Missiles throught the channel spell ability (because they're still first level spells) and they get no save and are not subject to spell resistance checks. Guaranteed extra damage against just about everything.

Again not the way we do it and that might be cause of the base caster class your's being a sorcerer and mine being a wizard but my 6 spellsword level charachter can prepare 2 1st level spells and cast them through his sword. or he can cast an extended reduce person (now 2nd level) or a precice touch fireball (BOEMIII makes area spell a touch spell reduces it by one level down to 2) I don't have him channel things like magic missle cause there is a chance he might miss and with a regular magic missle it hit automatically (still have to worry about sr but as I said above we decieded that the channeling doesn't bypass it.)

That's pretty cool.

For a good spellsworld, all you have to do is pick a few good combat feats, some good metamagic feats, and have a tight spell list. Everything is easy from there. You may not have a high caster level, or access to higher level spells, but you have a brutally effective fighter/wizard combination, with your spells shoring up weaknesses and allowing you greater mobility and fighting prowess.

But that's just my two cents. Take it as you will.

Thank you for your time.

As of late I have been tending more toward a wizard than a fighter but then my strength isn't high, 12. The spellsword abilities are cool but I haven't been using them too much lately. The last time I wondered into mele combat I got rocked 3 hits at 26, 19, 18, leaving me with only 12 HP. (darn evil hammers but I couldn't take another hit) So I firebranded the lot of them and got the hell out.

I'm gonna talk to my DM about switching to the new CW Spellsword. I am currentlly 6th level SS but I haven't use the spellsword cache ability cause I haven't had the time or XP. I was gonna switch to the new spellsword when it was origianlly rumored to come out in the 3.5 DMG.

I wouldn't call my self underpowered but I don't think that I've hit with a channeled spell attack in a while. I love the flavor and the above situation show the true power of the spell sword: adaptability. If I had been all fighter I'd be screwed.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

But why compare them to a fighter/wizard/eldritch knight when you can be a fighter/wizard/eldritch knight/spellsword? (Of course, if DM's don't let the distant past fulfill the "must defeat a foe through force of arms alone" bit, it may take some risk and some doing... I know my LG fighter/wizard/spellsword didn't defeat more than a couple of foes (only two or three if you don't include the teens who attacked him with daggers on the Greyhawk streets--not realizing that most characters with glaives also have combat reflexes) without using magic between second and twelth level. One was in a tournament and the other was a couple zombies when he was fourth level. After that, he always had some kind of buff or shield or haste spell active at some point).

Actually, though, I think CW Ftr 2/Wiz 8/Spellsword 10 compares reasonably well.

HP: 80.5, BAB +16, F +12 (I think you made a mistake and EK should be the same: +3 Ftr, +2 Wiz, +7 Spellsword/EK), R +5, W +13, clvl 13, no spell failure in mithral fullplate with a heavy mithral shield, channel spell, at least as many feats and a few other special abilities IIRC.

Granted, with Still Spell applied to all his spells, the EK still has an effective caster level of 16 and not only suffers no spell failure but also needs no hand free to cast. But he's short ten hit points, four points of will save, and the ability to use Channel Spell. Which has potential to be a truly vicious ability.

The 8th level spellsword could theoretically open up combat with a quickened Ray of Enfeeblement and follow it up with a full attack delivering both Ray of Exhaustion and Touch of Idiocy through his weapon. Or he could go for the damage gusto and nail his foe with a quickened Scorching Ray and follow up with a full attack including two empowered scorching rays through the Spellsword channel. 48d6+full attack damage. Not too shabby at all. It's better than the Quickened maximized scorching ray followed by the stilled, empowered, sonic admixed scorching ray that the EK can pull off. And it expends fewer resources to boot.

For the power gaming Spellsword, however:
Ftr 1/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight 3/Spellsword 10
HP 80.5; BAB +17, F +14, R +6, W+13, clvl 13,
or
Ftr 2/Wizard 4/Spellsword 10/Eldritch Knight 4
HP 84.5; BAB +18, F+14, R+5, W+12, clvl 12
or
Ftr 1/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight 4/Spellsword 9
HP 78.5; BAB +17, F +14, R +6, W+12, clvl 14

And in 3.5, compare either one to a Fighter2/Wizard8/Eldritch Knight 10. Spellcasting level 18, Hit Points 70.5, BAB +16, F +15, R +5, W +9, and 3 feats.

 

[Arken]

If you have it look at the spell channeling warrior mage PrC in Unapproachable East. I think that that's quite good myself (though I don't think it's broken but then I like a highpowered campaign).