Spellthief: Steal Spell Effect

[Herzog]

I have a question about the Spellthief's 'Steal Spell Effect' ability:

The abilities' description says:
'A spellthief can't steal a spell effect if its caster level exceeds his class level + his Charisma modifier.'

Assuming a 2nd lvl spellthief with CHA bonus +1, does this mean:

a. he can't steal spell effects from casters with a caster level 4+.
or
b. He can't steal spell effects for which the minimum caster level is 4+.

 

[emoplato]

I have a question about the Spellthief's 'Steal Spell Effect' ability:

The abilities' description says:
'A spellthief can't steal a spell effect if its caster level exceeds his class level + his Charisma modifier.'

Assuming a 2nd lvl spellthief with CHA bonus +1, does this mean:

a. he can't steal spell effects from casters with a caster level 4+.
or
b. He can't steal spell effects for which the minimum caster level is 4+.

It means A, but B could apply if somehow a high level spell wand got in the hands of a low level character. Caster level is from the person or thing a spell is being cast from.

 

[Herzog]

Now you're confusing me more. Let me restate the question:

If it means A, then:

-He can steal a mage armor from a 3rd lvl wizard
-He can NOT steal a mage armor from a 4th lvl wizard
-He can steal a mage armor from a 4th lvl wizard, if that wizard used a wand or potion of mage armor to get the mage armor.

If it means B then he can steal the mage armor in all above cases.

Which is it?

 

[RogueInRouge]

If it means A, then:

-He can steal a mage armor from a 3rd lvl wizard
-He can NOT steal a mage armor from a 4th lvl wizard
-He can steal a mage armor from a 4th lvl wizard, if that wizard used a wand or potion of mage armor to get the mage armor.

Right, it means A, and pretty much breaks down as you've described above. It all depends on the caster level of the effect that's currently active. So:

-- 3rd level wizard casts mage armor from memory: your spell thief can steal that effect
-- 4th level wizard casts mage armor from memory: he can't steal that effect
-- 4th level wizard casts mage armor from scroll prepared as caster level 1: he can steal the effect
-- 4th level wizard casts mage armor from scroll prepared as caster level 4: he can't steal the effect

 

[Greenfield]

A semi-related question: There's a spell called Spell Theft in Complete Scoundrel. It says that the caster designates a target, and becomes aware of every spell effect on that target and its effects.

From there, "For each spell so discerned, you can make a dispel check (1d20 + your caster level, maximum +15) against a DC of 11 + the spell's caster level."

The word "can" has an interesting implication here: Does the caster then get to pick and choose which spell effects they want to steal?

For example, my Bard might want to take the Stoneskin and Fire Resistance, but leave the Touch of Idiocy right where it is, thank you.

Does the caster have that option?

Spell Theft

( Complete Scoundrel)

Abjuration
Level: Bard 4, Hexblade 4, Sorcerer 5, Wizard 5,
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
Winding your magical grip around the dweomers that augment your opponent, you rip them away and feel their energy rise around you.
You attempt to steal an opponent's beneficial spell effects for yourself.
Upon casting this spell, you instantly discern all spells currently affecting the target (including their effects).
For each spell so discerned, you can make a dispel check (1d20 + your caster level, maximum +15) against a DC of 11 + the spell's caster level.
If the check succeeds, you gain the effect of the spell for the remainder of its duration, as if it had been cast on you instead of the original target, and the opponent loses that effect.
Only spells capable of being dispelled can be affected by spell theft.
In addition, if you are not a legal target of the spell to be stolen, your dispel check automatically fails.
For example, if you cast spell theft on a dire bear affected by bull's strength and animal growth, you could steal only the effect of the first spell unless you were also of the animal type.

 

[Herzog]

[MENTION=6683718]RogueInRouge[/MENTION]:

Well, that pretty much makes that ability worthless for a multiclassing Spellthief.

I was considering taking a second level of spellthief, but at lvl 9 I highly doubt being able to steal spell effects with caster lvl 3 or below is going to do much.

 

[RogueInRouge]

The word "can" has an interesting implication here: Does the caster then get to pick and choose which spell effects they want to steal?

For example, my Bard might want to take the Stoneskin and Fire Resistance, but leave the Touch of Idiocy right where it is, thank you.

Does the caster have that option?

Absolutely!

Disclaimer: I haven't played with this spell before, but the description pretty much bends over backwards to make the point that it's not an all-or-nothing affair, even noting in the summary that the intent is for the thief to steal only the "beneficial" effects for himself.

Given that "beneficial" is a very situational judgment, and that the spell is written to allow a separate optional check for each effect, I can't really get my head around any other good faith interpretation of RAW.

 

[RogueInRouge]

Well, that pretty much makes that ability worthless for a multiclassing Spellthief.

I was considering taking a second level of spellthief, but at lvl 9 I highly doubt being able to steal spell effects with caster lvl 3 or below is going to do much.

Maybe you could lobby your DM to stretch the interpretation of the Practiced Spellcaster feat to apply to the Spell Thief's effective level for the purposes of stealable spells/effects?

It's not RAW, but you could definitely make a case for it...

 

[Herzog]

After wracking my head over prestige classes applicable to my current character, my DM has suggested I write one of my own (which I will post shortly in a new thread).
I've taken the oppertunity to write a specific progression tofix this 'problem' using the PrC 'special' spell progression....