Spiked chain wielders and how to DM for them?

[Dash Dannigan]

IMC I have a PC moving along nicely as a fighter specializing in the spiked chain. Will likely go for master of chains. How have other DMs handled these PCs? Rules for tight spaces and wielding a reach weapon? How quickly do you allow opponents to figure out the reach capability of the chain? One hit, two hits? Just like to hear other experiences and the way NPCs and monsters reacted to such a chain-wielding foe.

Haven't any problems with him and don't really intend any but just wanted to hear how other DMs took to the chain as a weapon and had to deal with it in battle situations.

Any comments on the MAster of Chains PrC as of current use? IS it balanced, need to be fixed? Haven't looked closely at it yet but will have to very soon and also wanted folks opinions on this as well.

Thanks a million in advance!

 

[Thanee]

There are no spiked chains IMC!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Tight spaces and a reach weapon? You mean spaces less than five feet wide? That might be a problem for a glaive or a guisarm. It would be a problem for a spiked chain too. I wouldn't think it's a problem for a Ranseur or longspear as long as the character didn't need to turn the weapon around though. If the space is five feet wide though, I don't think the chain wielder would have problems. He can choke up enough to keep the chain from slamming into the walls when he's attacking those near him and still use vertical swings and/or snap the chain like a whip (I've always imagined the spiked chain being used like the Chinese whip-chain) to attack those at ten feet.

Figuring out reach? Automatic. The character is threatening the space after all. That will usually mean swinging the chain menacingly which is something very visible. You don't need to actually get hit in order to figure out how far a foe can reach.

However, inexperienced foes who get the drop on (win initiative and thereby catch flatfooted) characters with reach weapons will often think that they can avoid the attacks of opportunity because the character wouldn't normally be able to bring his weapon to bear so quickly. They also have been known to think that an ally can distract the chain wielder (by provoking an AoO) and allow others to close without provoking. Both of these can be deadly assumptions against a foe with combat reflexes.

More experienced foes who are able to recognize a foe of at least minimal competence (visible magical or expensive items--fullplate, for instance is rarely affordable for run of the mill mercenaries and warriors and flaming weapons and Ioun stones, etc are dead give-aways) will know that most experienced warriors who carry reach weapons do so because they've honed their reflexes to a razor edge (they know he's probably got combat reflexes or odds are he wouldn't be carrying a reach weapon to put my flavor text into mechanical terms) and don't count upon being able to close with a flatfooted opponent without provoking the AoO. Nor do they count on one distraction being sufficient to let them slip within the chain's reach.

As for the Master of Chains, I've never seen it in use but it looks fairly balanced....

 

[Darklone]

Well, the master of chains PrC has a strong tendency to evil chars... so it might not be what a paladin like fighter is heading towards.

As for playing it: It's not too bad. Some even complained it would be too weak. Haven't tried it yet with the boost to TWF in 3.5 though.

Always keep in mind that the Spiked Chain allows a lot of manoevring during combat, but it is pretty weak damagewise. Simply drown the char in small baddies, he'll love to use his Combat Reflexes and you'll love to pin him with kobolds the one time it might work

 

[reapersaurus]

If memory serves, the Master of Chaions is a substandard PrC.
It looks good at fuirst glance, but when building one for a campaign, its benefits start to fizzle out, and you're left with a weak specialist.

I strongly believe it should be houseruled whenever used in a campaign, to give the Master more benefits when using his dedicated weapon. The entrance requirements were absurd, too - cross-class skills kill any build.

 

[Darklone]

Hmm, IIRC a fighter rogue could qualify? Can anyone post the requirements?

Ftr4/Rog3... and sneak attack helps a lot with the TWF ability.

I would have preferred a class with a more martial outlook and less demonic inclinations. Let's hope for the Complete Warrior.

 

[Kodam]

Hi!

Prereq for MoCh: Al: any nongood; Skills: Esc Art 6, Op Lock 4, Inti 4; Feats: EWP (SC), (combat) Expertise, Imp Trip, Imp. Disarm, W Focus, w Spec, Ability: Int 13+ (for combat expertise)

If you want to be a MoCh as fast as possible a human Ftr4/Rog2 is the way to go.

Btw: How do you figure out the Save-DC of the scare-ability? Its neither in the book nor in the Errata or the FAQ's. I'd say its Cha-based. What do you think?

Kodam

 

[Madfox]

With the increased deadlyness of tripping and whirlwind attack combined with the spell enlarge person and the viability of a chain-wielding fighter has been hugely increased in 3.5.

 

[Darklone]

Right. And as a double weapon, the spiked chain might actually be not so bad damagewise.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Btw: How do you figure out the Save-DC of the scare-ability? Its neither in the book nor in the Errata or the FAQ's. I'd say its Cha-based. What do you think?

Kodam

If it doesn't say, I'd assume it's DC 10 + prestige class level + Cha modifier.