Spirit Companions (and other Power Effects) outside of combats

[DevP]

Should my Shamans be allowed to have their Spirit Companions up and wandering around when they're out of combat? Should players be allowed to generally benefit from the use of their powers outside of combat?

RAW, I believe the answer is no. For my own game, I'd actually like to encourage them to use their powers in interesting RP ways if it doesn't break anything, so I don't mind the idea of them keeping their Spirit Companions up and around during the travels. I'm then split on which kinds of powers would work outside of combat. For example:

- If you're using healing surges in non-combat while near the bear SC, do you heal extra HP? Eh, why not? I don't mind.

- If your spirit Companion is summoned previously, does that mean you don't need to Call it during combat? I say no, and I can come up with fluff to justify it. ("You must command your Spirit Companion to enter its Spirit Frenzy.") I think the spirit of the rules is that gamestate is a kinda blank slate at the beginning of combat.

What do you think?

 

[sfedi]

I let the Spirit Companion be summoned whenever the player wants.

Note that you must allow that for healing purposes, so PCs can take advantage of it's bonuses to healing, like all other Leaders can do.

As for not having to summon it into combat, I allow it to have it pre-summoned and put it along the other PC minis at combat setup.
So far, the player prefers to spend the Minor action during combat rather than having to dispel it (Minor) and re-summon it on a more convenient place in the battlefield (a Move turned into Minor).

 

[Volin]

I don't think RAW that there is any problem keeping your companions around like that. In fact, there is a degree to which power usage outside of combat is preferred. There are some powers for skill checks (which have few obvious in battle advantages) and there are a number of sections in the D&D books that talk about using powers to break objects.

In addition, it just makes sense for the person to keep his companion around. It's nice RP material.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I don't understand why you think the RAW says no. Is there a particular passage that you have in mind?

The only power restrictions that I know of are "if a power gives a benefit from attacking an enemy, then the enemy you attack must be a viable threat or the power doesn't trigger" and "powers that target creatures may target objects at the dm's discretion".

 

[DevP]

Saeviomagy: those were the sections I was thinking, but I can't think of any other part of the books. So this sounds good. Spirit Companions for everyone!

 

[DracoSuave]

I don't understand why you think the RAW says no. Is there a particular passage that you have in mind?

The only power restrictions that I know of are "if a power gives a benefit from attacking an enemy, then the enemy you attack must be a viable threat or the power doesn't trigger" and "powers that target creatures may target objects at the dm's discretion".

Also, 'Use discretion when determining the number of allies any power can effect.' Meaning, even if you have a power that can -technically- give 100 allies a free attack, doesn't mean you can do so.

But anyways.

Yes, you can have a spirit companion up and about outside of combat. It's an at-will with no restriction on its use at all.

Yes, that -does- make Bear Shamans very effective out of combat healers, what with their class feature, and their encounter healing power as well.

But even if you disallowed the encounter healing power (which is supported in this use by feats, by the way) that just means one build of shaman has the same effectiveness to out-of-combat surge-spending as a bard does out of the box.

And last I heard, there hasn't been any major call to ban or alter or nerf Song of Rest.

And if there -has been- they're probably overreacting by over 9000.

 

[Turtlejay]

- If your spirit Companion is summoned previously, does that mean you don't need to Call it during combat? I say no, and I can come up with fluff to justify it. ("You must command your Spirit Companion to enter its Spirit Frenzy.") I think the spirit of the rules is that gamestate is a kinda blank slate at the beginning of combat.

What do you think?

This I don't get. . .do you allow your players to enter combat with weapons drawn? Same thing. A rogue can be cautious, and entering danger with his weapon out, and a shaman can do the same, summoning his spirit to watch his back for ambushes, or whatever he deems appropriate.

Jay

 

[sfedi]

...summoning his spirit to watch his back for ambushes, or whatever he deems appropriate.

I don't know if you're talking figuratively, but Spirit Companions can't watch anything, they are not creatures.

 

[Turtlejay]

I don't know if you're talking figuratively, but Spirit Companions can't watch anything, they are not creatures.

Right, any more than the wizard's flaming sphere can watch *his* back. I'm aware of that, but were I playing a Shaman, and I felt I was in danger, I would summon my companion because I'm sure I'd feel safer having it around. This is aside from the fact that it has little mechanical benefit out of combat, but entirely in deference to how I feel it should be roleplayed.

Same thing with an archer stringing his bow and nocking an arrow, or a wizard mumbling arcane gibberish, just something someone who is acustomed to danger is likely to do.

In game, it saves you a minor action, which may or may not be a big deal. Out of game, I'm not sure why it should be prohibited. Can a wizard use cantrips out of combat? Why or why not? Apply that same logic to the Spirit Companion.

Jay

 

[CapnZapp]

I think it would be awfully hard to justify why a PC couldn't use his at-wills at, well, at will.

At will effectively means "continuously", so they work fine outside of combat IMC.

Encounters and Dailies are different. If you use an encounter outside of an encounter, that counts for the next encounter for that day.

Of course, if the situation matters, it will be an encounter. So my answer is "when it doesn't matter, you can allow a player to do whatever he wants".