Spirit Eater (Level 14 Elite Controller)

[ThirdWizard]

I'm wondering if this guy is going to suck. I love the mechanics I have set up for this guy, but I'm not sure if it is going to work in play.

I think Invisibility might push it over the line. I can get rid of it if need be.

Other than that, he relies heavily on Spirit Wrack. If everyone is Spirit Wracked, obviously the encounter is more difficult. If the party can remove it or makes their saving throws quickly, the encounter is much easier. Spiritual Maw becomes very important depending on which way it goes.

Rot Mind is pretty much there so that if everyone is under the effects of Spirit Wrack, he still has something to do with his Standard.

Lots of save ends effects on this one. Too many? Most of the onus of remembering is on the players instead of the DM, so it should make tracking easier since its spread around.

Is it too much of a possibility that everyone will just use at-wills when Spirit Wracked? In the end it will depend on the personality of the players, but I wanted to make it a trade off. True, if they stick to at-wills, then he will never be able to use Shadow Bolt or Doom, but I'm hoping that won't happen. Should he have other options? I'm worried he'll have too many options if I add more. And, if I increase the damage on Spiritual Assault or something like that, it just gives them more incentive to use at-wills.

He'll be paired with more monsters, of course. Much of this will depend on them. For the sake of discussion, he won't be paired with anything that dazes or stuns, so all dazes and stuns will come from Spirit Wrack.

Anyway, what do you think?

 

[DanmarLOK]

On a purely personal note (as a DM) I dislike stun's as it takes players out of their turn which tends to take them out of the game and make them disinterested. This may not be a problem for your players though.

This does sound like it's going to be a save fest. Perhaps instead make some last Until The End of Creatures Next Turn.

Spiritual Maw is missing the range/burst information. It's essentially spiritual assault with a burst judging by the icon.

Invisible is a bit much I would say. Perhaps instead give an encounter power to go 'shadowy' where it gains concealment against ranged attacks, sustain minor.

The -2 to some saves seems like more a tracking headache than anything? Again that depends on your players.

 

[jstomel]

Something seems wonky about it's HP value. According to my MonsterMaker software a level 14 elite controller should have nearly twice that many hit points. Also, lots of it's attacks only affect stunned or dazed creatures. It has no direct way to stun or daze. Sure, if a spirit wracked creature uses an encounter power they become dazed, but that's only going to work once. When your players figure it out they will simply never use encounter or daily powers when spirit wracked. They'll wait until they save out and then nova with all their action points. A paragon level party should have lots of good options for granting saving throws and removing status effects. Also, it has no usable melee or close attacks and very few bursts. A fighter could walk up next to this thing and lock down it's movement by marking it. Now it doesn't have anything it can do without taking opportunity attacks. I wouldn't worry about it being too powerful.

Some other comments: If this creature is undead, shouldn't it be vulnerable to radiant? Stealth +12 seems a little low for an invisible creature, is the bonus for invisibility worked in to that? I mean, you can expect a level 14 PC with decent perception to have around a +16 perception score. Why is this creature a controller? It seems more like a lurker to me.

Other than that it looks like a fun creature with some interesting tactical options. Pairing it with other monsters will be an important aspect.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Okay, I've updated him! Comments below stat block.

DanmarLOK:

Stun gone! And, I've changed Spirit Wrack completely. Now they're dazed, but have a way to get rid of it for a lesser effect (combat advantage). Basically before it might as well have been worded "You can't use daily powers." I hope the new version works better.

Saves have been streamlined. Most effects last while Spirit Wracked now, and the -2 penalty to saves has been rolled into an aura instead of the individual powers. This should make it easier to keep track of.

Fixed Spiritual Maw. It is now correctly listed as an Area burst 1 within 10 squares.

Removed invisibility. The new ability should help with some things jstomel mentioned. One immediate reaction per round should keep this power in check, while still giving it the ability to survive direct confrontation. I hope.

jstomel:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain insubstantial creatures generally get 1/2 hit points.

I'm considering adding a close attack, but I'm not sure on the exact mechanics behind it. It should be something to get the PCs away from it or get it away from the PCs. Also, with the new Cloud of Vapor power, hopefully it will not find itself surrounded surrounded for quite a few rounds.

Added Vulnerable to radiant.

The +12 was not taking invisibility into account. I actually had it intentionally low (-5) to make the invisibility less potent. Now that it doesn't turn invisible, I've made it the appropriate value.

General thoughts:

Now that the saves have been consolidated, things that automatically make saves and things that give saving throws can make huge swings in the encounter. I upped the -2 penalty to -3 in the aura change to try to help the guy, but I'm not sure exactly how well it will work. -3 to saves is huge, and it remains to be seen how the players will react to being inside/outside the aura.

Shadow Bolt and Doom can both target someone who is dazed. This could be very very bad. I need to fix this.

Some ideas I'm thinking about on:

A minor recharge ability (5,6? 6?) that just does Spirit Wrack on the target (save ends).

A close burst that pushes targets 3 squares and slows them (save ends). Possibly make the slow only affect Spirit Wracked creatures, and tie it to that.

Maybe, maybe, some kind of domination power that can only be used while bloodied.

Turn the Aura completely around. Make it smaller (2 or 3) and creatures inside are considered Spirit Wracked. Hitting him with radiant damage turns off the aura until the start of your next turn.


I'm going to be running the guy on Friday, so I have to have this guy done by then!

 

[Mentat55]

Insubstantial creatures are a bit wonky -- they have fewer hit points, but never half, more like 10-20% fewer, and usually have somewhat lower defenses, though this is not universally true.

Actually, without any real countermeasures against insubstantial (except for one paragon-tier feat), I am not sure why that quality even exists.

I will echo the sentiments of some that the copious amount of dazing and stunning that seems likely with this monster might not be so fun for the players, or frankly for you. Perhaps a more interesting set of conditions would be in order. I like immobilize, large amounts of forced movement, and the like.

 

[Mesh Hong]

Insubstantial creatures are a bit wonky -- they have fewer hit points, but never half, more like 10-20% fewer, and usually have somewhat lower defenses, though this is not universally true.

My general rule of thumb is that an insubstantial creature has 75% of the expected HP value by role and level. Insubstantial creatures are usually undead so they also have vulnerability to help balance it all out.

This actually means that the creature has effectively more HPs if the party does not have access to the damage type that the creature is vulnerable to.

In this case I notice that this creature has no vulnerability to radiant damage. This being the case the creature should have about half the expected HPs, which is what the posted creature has.

 

[ThirdWizard]

This is probably the final version unless there are any glaring issues, as the game is tomorrow.

Here is the encounter:

• Spirit Eater

• Icetomb Wight x2

• Putrescent zombie x4
  Continue: Every round, more zombies climb out of the ground where hands reach up through the earth - 2,3,4,5

• Swirling Shadow - Some squares have a swirling shadowy cloud-like substance in them. These move in a circular pattern, 1d4+1 squares per round, of various circumferences. Anyone who shares a square with these gains Resist 5 necrotic until the end of their next turn as the shadow suffuses through them. An Arcana or Religion check (DC 15) will reveal the effects to observers.

• Zombie Hands (14) - Anyone entering a square with zombie hands is grabbed unless they make an Athletics check (DC 17) to get away

• Shallow Grave - Wherever a zombie crawls out of the ground, there is a shallow grave left in its place about 3 feet deep. These are difficult terrain. A character can ignore it by jumping over the hole.

The Icetomb Wights should be nasty with the Spirit Eater. Lots of saves going around, but I'm fine with that after having consolidated the Spirit Eater.

Lots of exploding zombies about, but if they use the Swirling Shadow it should alleviate much of the damage caused by their exploding.

I don't expect the encounter to be too difficult. I'll post back here how it goes.

 

[Mesh Hong]

I have just noticed that the Spirit Eater doesn't have a basic melee attack.

Also you might want to formalise whether it will hit its allies or not with its blast and burst powers as I doubt whether its undead allies have psychic resistance. It could end up dazing or slowing its own side! (with undead controlers I sometimes add "living creatures only" to the power description.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Made some changes before the game. Here's the version I played with on Friday.

It was a difficult encounter. One guy (barbarian) didn't make a saving throw for Spirit Wrack once and was wracked the entire combat. That's with the cleric giving him two extra saves. Bad luck for him, especially once he was immobilized. Luckily he had throwing axes.

The real stars of the combat were the Putrescent Zombies. Those guys were nasty. At one point, the fighter did come and get it to a bunch of them and did massive damage to the party. Burst 5 is really big. The group didn't take advantage of the swirls until the end when everyone was low on hit points and near death.

The wights were dispatched very quickly. Nobody wanted their surges being eaten. The party used push/pull powers to get wights off of anyone they grabbed, so no surges were lost to them. They lasted 2-3 rounds.

So, how did the spirit eater go?

He lasted a long time mostly because of the PCs being blocked by wights and minions, but once they made it to him, he was fairly quickly dispatched when hit with some radiant damage. I swapped out miniatures when they made him corporeal for fun, and it was a nice touch, I think.

I like the core mechanic (spirit wrack). There's a plus side and a down side. On the plus side, its easy to keep track. Are you Spirit Wracked? Roll a saving throw. On the downside, stacking all this stuff onto a single save is bad if they can't make the save. I don't have a perfect answer to that one.

The Aura was good. Rough, but good. I might consider lowering it to -2, though.

Spiritual Maw didn't recharge, so I didn't get to use it but once.

Cascade of Madness was a great power.

Spirit Wrack + Cascade of Madness + Shadow Bolt + Break Determination is killer.

Cloud of Vapor is annoying, but necessary. Without it he would have died even faster than he did. I like it as recharge because otherwise, the players will get frustrated. So, teleporting every other to third round or so is good. Especially if he can move so that somebody is acting as a blocker.

Overall, happy with him.

 

[Mesh Hong]

Glad to hear it went well, its an interesting creature.

Spiritual Maw didn't recharge, so I didn't get to use it but once.

That's why I try and steer clear of recharge powers. I tend to make them encounter powers that recharge under a certain condition or use recharge instead, otherwise it can be really swingy as to whether you will ever see a second use, or maybe worse, randomly get it recharging too frequently!