SPOILERS - Ice & Fire, the dissenting voice.

[SableWyvern]

First, I need to point out that I am half-way through Storm of Swords Pt 2, so it would be appreciated if no one commented on anything after Bran reaches the Wall/Daenerys sends her knights away (into the sewers, I'm guessing...)/Robb and Catelyn die.

Second, I should also point out that I do think this is a good series, and I am enjoying it.

HOWEVER,

In parts, it's damn annoying. Everyone has talked about what marvellous character building Martin does. Problem is, it is often at the expense of plot.

The first 250 pages of Book 1 basically has no plot, although I forgave him that because it was an 800 page book, and thus he's allowed some time to develop characters and establish a backdrop.

But, as things progress, there are several characters/plot lines that really don't have anything to do with the bigger picture.

Arya is the best example, and her story is really frustrating me. Take her out of the series, and you haven't lost a thing, except a few hundred pages of wandering around in circles, getting captured, escaping, almost reaching somewhere important, getting captured again....all to no real benefit for the greater story.

As she approached the Twins, I was afraid. Afraid that, yet again, she would fail to get home, and her tale of wandering would continue. When everything started to go wrong for Catelyn and Robb, I wasn't concerned for their well-being. When they died, I was just angry that Arya was going to have to continue her pointless wanderings.

Dany has been similar. Although she is at last starting to become truly relevant, she really wasn't necessary in the first two books. She wandered around and did all sorts of stuff that did little but distract me from the important things.

The reader is none-the-worse for the fact that Jaime-perspective stuff wasn't introduced until a Storm of Swords. The same could have been true for Dany. And others.

Aargh.

Well, I've vented, got that off my chest, and I feel better now.

It is a good story, despite the bits that annoy me.

 

[Fade]

Those bits didn't annoy me, because they're building up characters that look like they will be very important to the plot later on - Daenerys certainly, and I'm sure Arya is going to come back as a power. Arya's story also gave a good picture of what was happening at 'ground level' with all the wars and politics and suchlike, a nice change.

 

[Velenne]

Those bits didn't annoy me ... a nice change.

Ditto.

 

[Storminator]

Some people like plot the most, and so character for character's sake doesn't sit right. For others plot is what happens to characters, and is therefore meaningless without them. And some just like characters and could care less if a plot ever happens at all!

I think Martin sits in the second camp, and so none of his plot matters without characters. Arya and Dany will become enormously important later, and they will be vastly different people than they were at the start of the series. How they got there needs development, otherwise we'll be asking "why is this little girl the ______?"

I also think Arya shows a contrast to Sansa, which puts all of Sansa's chapters in perspective.

Naturally none of that will change your mind.

PS

 

[SableWyvern]

I tell you what, if these guys don't become truly important characters down the track, you'll find out what a rant really is.


Another, much smaller thing that's bothered me is pretending to kill characters. Not knowing the author, and having heard talk about twists and all the rest, I was really worried about Bran as he crept along to spy on Jaime and Cersei right near the start. When he fell, I was thoroughly impressed with his death. But, he wasn't dead.

Nor was Ned when Littlefinger stuck a knife under his throat.

Nor Arya when Yoren went at her with his knife.

Nor Bran and Rickon when Theon stuck their heads on spikes.

Nor Jaime when Catelyn pulled a sword on him in his cell.

Nor Arya again, when she got an axe to the head.

And I'm sure there are a couple I've missed.


Back to Storminator's comments, that'd be about right. I actually think Martin writes really well, so much so that he's made me really reconsider aspects of my own writing. I was actually impressed after just the Prelude and 1st chapter of Thrones.

I also enjoy good characters. But, as you stated Storminator, character without plot is not for me.

IMO, Donaldson's Gap Series got the perfect balance. Well developed characters, and a mad, complex, onrushing plot that just built and built and built...

Martin, OTOH, has a well developed plot, and intricate, semi-irrelevant characters that just grow and grow and grow...





One thing I will disagree with Storminator on:

Arya and Dany will become enormously important later, and they will be vastly different people than they were at the start of the series. How they got there needs development, otherwise we'll be asking "why is this little girl the ______?"

Martin is a good writer, and he is damn good at character and mood; especially at building characters quickly, or using a change of perspective to completely (and believably) alter the reader's perception in almost no time at all.

I do not believe he needed to give Arya and Dany the word count he did in order to develop them effectively. If he had wanted to, he is, IMO, well and truly skilled enough to have focused closely on them only after they become more central, without losing anything in the way of quality.

That, does not mean he should have done that. Just that I would have preferred it if he had.

 

[Dagger75]

For me personally Arya's chapters where my favorite. I actually hope there is more in the next book.
I have to agree Arya's chapter where basically showing what the common people go through durning times of war.