Spontaneous Cleric Spell Casting

[lottrbacchus]

To me, when Clerics cast spells, they are prating to their gods and channeling god magic. So why do they have to choose their spells in the morning? So we let Clerics spontaneously cast all their spells with the following conditions:

Clerics now have a "spells known" list. It is comprised of both their domain spells, plus spells per day +wis modifier. So a first level cleric with an 18 wisdom gets the two domain spells + 2 (1 for 1st level and 1 for high wisdom) + 4 (wisdom bonus). Chosen spells must be approved by the dm (if the dm wasn't so lazy, each religion would have a list of spells to choose from...).

The domain slot can be spontaneously used as either of the domain spells or a cure spell if the Cleric chose a cure spell as known.

This way, the Cleric prays for whatever spell is actually needed at the moment of the prayer, instead of praying for a power that may or may not be needed hours and hours later.

Game play result- nobody gripes and moans about having to play a Cleric because somebody had to do it for the benefit of the whole party. They actually like being Clerics.

 

[Sound of Azure]

To me, when Clerics cast spells, they are prating to their gods and channeling god magic. So why do they have to choose their spells in the morning?

Partly due to tradition, I think, but also to reflext that Clerics (and Druids too) are supposed to be wise. Most religions are very traditional, with specific rites and rituals. Having a time to prepare spells is generally most appropriate.

However, I see where you're coming from. If you have Complete Divine, I'd take a look at the Spirit Shaman's spell method. They are spontaneous casters, but they have the whole druid list available as spells known. They only have a small part available at a time however, selecting their available spells each day.

It's a good mix between the two methods IMO, though it's a shame not being able to spontaneously apply metamagic. Requiring some measure of wisdom/guesswork, but being able to spontaneously cast some available spells is pretty good.

Clerics now have a "spells known" list. It is comprised of both their domain spells, plus spells per day +wis modifier. So a first level cleric with an 18 wisdom gets the two domain spells + 2 (1 for 1st level and 1 for high wisdom) + 4 (wisdom bonus). Chosen spells must be approved by the dm (if the dm wasn't so lazy, each religion would have a list of spells to choose from...).

Have you seen the Favoured Soul class? It's also in Complete Divine. It seems to be close to what you're after, although spell progression is delayed by a level (same as the sorcerer). They don't get domains though, choosing (approved by the DM) spells as they go.

Your system is interesting, although I don't think you should allow the cleric to increase their spells known twice as a result of their Wisdom score.

 

[Nifft]

Blah blah blah class features disguised as spells blah blah blah.

The usual, -- N

 

[lottrbacchus]

Thanks for the input SoA. I'm toying with the idea that clerics need to spend x amount of time per day in general prayer and meditation before they get their spells per day back.

And I generally agree with the no double wis bonus. In fact I think that was the way we originally had it, but last session (first with these new characters) my tricky player ran it past me while I was helping the new player finish his character. So I'll write it down correctly but probably not make it retroactive (they are half-celestials so I can fudge it that way).

Nifft- Blah? Oh blahdy blah blah! I rolled a natural 1 and so missed your point. Bleck.

 

[Nifft]

Nifft- Blah? Oh blahdy blah blah! I rolled a natural 1 and so missed your point. Bleck.

I'm making fun of how I always chime in to these kinds of threads, which roll around every few months, and say the same sort of thing. Basically, be careful forcing your PCs to choose only certain spells, because unlike a Sorcerer or Wizard, a lot of Clerical spells are actually class features in disguise.

Like remove disease. It's such an unsexy spell, no spontaneous caster would ever choose it as one of his precious few spells known. But if you can't do it ever, that's very different from being unable to do it today.

Same thing with create food and water. It's a terrible waste of a spell known slot, or the whole party is dead.

Anyway. Things to consider.

-- N

EDIT: PS: Get a supporter account and search this forum. There's been a lot of good thought put into such things by various people.

 

[lottrbacchus]

Thanks for the clarification Nifft. I actually am very seriously considering getting the supporter account for that very reason. Just waiting to get a credit on my American debit card, since my central European card can't be used for internet transactions...

You are right about how some spells can be life savers even if they aren't sexy choices as 'spells known'. Similar to the problem Sorcerers face. Luckily, those two specific examples you chose are not a problem for this party. They started above first level and took rings of sustenance, so don't have to worry about food. They took purify water because they thought they really ought to; and since they are half-celestial, they are immune to disease and can cast cure disease as spell like ability.

 

[Nifft]

Okay, I've done a search for you, and turned up this gem:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=145527


... along with some other potentially useful threads (which I haven't totally vetted):

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=187976
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=152493
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=186663
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=161828
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=180420
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=150983

Enjoy! And join anyway!
Cheers, -- N

 

[Engilbrand]

I posted an alternate to the Cleric a few months back that is called the Champion. Basically, it gets 4 Domains related to its god. The Domain spells are cast spontaneously. You follow the normal spells per day of the Cleric. Any bonus spells that you get may be cast spontaneously from the entire Cleric list. This goes with the whole idea that their god gives them what they need, and the Domains are what the god would be focused on. Oh yeah. It also gets extra and expanded uses of the Domain abilities. You might want to check it out. By this point, I have no idea how one would find it. I guess that you would need the search function.

 

[GreatLemur]

I harp on this as badly as Nifft with his "class features disguised as spells" caveats, but I have to say that I'm a big supporter of the Spontaneous Divine Casters variant, which can change the focus of the Cleric class immensely. I also like the idea of replacing Turn Undead with something more deity-specific. There's no reason that the priests of the forge god should be focused on healing wounds and fighting zombies, you know?

Not that any of this take's Nifft's important point into account. Frankly, I guess what I'd do for that is just give the Wizard access to the Cleric's when-you-need-them-you-really-need-them spells.

 

[Nifft]

Frankly, I guess what I'd do for that is just give the Wizard access to the Cleric's when-you-need-them-you-really-need-them spells.

Someone proposed turning those into Incantations (or Rituals or something) -- class-neutral, but expensive, time-consuming and skill-centric.

Sounded awesome. Haven't had any time to look into mechanics myself, though.

Cheers, -- N