Stacking Blur and Mirror Image

[Mistwell]

See: Blanket Analogy, above.

I already responded that I think it's one of two competing and compelling analogies. Just because someone can come up with an analogy that is counter to this doesn't mean the question is answered. It just means we have two competing and compelling analogies, and hence a tie. And I break ties using the official FAQ from the publisher of the rules.

Blur, as an effect, makes the PC, and hence their image, jump and move about on the edges. People keep talking about how it's just "blurry" because that is the title of the spell. But that isn't the described effect. The described effect is movement-oriented. And movement-oriented effects other than this one all effect the image. If I have a higher dex, even if it is from a spell, the image gets a better AC and therefore attacks have a greater miss chance against it. I really think that is the more compelling analogy than anlogies that depend on a fixed object blocking sight. This isn't the case of a fixed object. It's an effect that makes the image move (or appear to move).

 

[SlagMortar]

If I am concealed, my images are concealed. It doesn't matter if I am concealed because of shadows, or because of a blur spell.

What about when a character has total cover from a towershield? Do the images also have total cover from the towershield?

I honestly think that mirror image should be removed from the game. Blur and displacement are essentially the same effect - magic makes some attacks miss. If you like the "starts strong, but gets progressively worse" mechanic, then have the miss chance start at (2d4*10)% and remove 10% for each attack that the miss chance causes to miss.

 

[irdeggman]

The normal Concealment rules merely state "target", not "creature". This is what Darkness and the Lighting rules should state as well, but they do not.

So then a figment (e.g., MI) should be a legitimate target for blur since it provides concealment since you state the remaining information on blur is merely "fluff".

 

[lukelightning]

Pawsplay is claiming that illusions can't cast shadows. This baffles me completely; where does it say that in the rules text?

All I know is that if figments can't cast shadows then fifth-level vegans can eat them.

 

[irdeggman]

If I am concealed, my images are concealed. It doesn't matter if I am concealed because of shadows, or because of a blur spell. The source of the effect as being magical or not is not relevant.

QFT

 

[werk]

I already responded that I think it's one of two competing and compelling analogies. Just because someone can come up with an analogy that is counter to this doesn't mean the question is answered. It just means we have two competing and compelling analogies, and hence a tie. And I break ties using the official FAQ from the publisher of the rules.

OK, the miss chance is caused by being covered in COTTON CANDY!

The figment isn't actually covered in cotton candy, because we only had enough to cover the caster. Now, is the cotton candy part of the figment created by MI actual cotton candy, or is it figment?

If it's figment, then the image is removed.
If it is cotton candy...how'd that happen?!?! Where'd that cotton candy come from?

^^that is exactly the same as blur, in my reading.

 

[Mistwell]

What about when a character has total cover from a towershield? Do the images also have total cover from the towershield?

That's just another analogy based on a fixed object blocking sight, and not a movement-oriented effect influencing the image. Movement oriented effects, like bonuses to Dex, benefit the image. Blur is a movement-oriented effect. The image is jumping about and moving at the edges very fast, making it harder to hit. It's not that there is a fixed object added to the image, but that the image is moving, that makes the FAQ answer compelling to me.

 

[Mistwell]

OK, the miss chance is caused by being covered in COTTON CANDY!

I'm not sure how many ways I can talk about the movement effect analogy. What isn't making sense about that part of my responses that you keep cutting it?

If I am the subject of a Cat’s Grace spell (+4 to dex), does my mirror image gain a +2 to AC, thus making it more difficult to hit, or not?

If you answer is yes, how can that be if spells cast on me have no effect on the image?

 

[irdeggman]

What about when a character has total cover from a towershield? Do the images also have total cover from the towershield?

Well a figmment can't reproduce a physical effect (again as pointed out by the FAQ).

So unless the cover (a physical barrier - where concealment is a "visual" condition) physically extends to where the MI is it can't benefit from it.

PHB pg 306

cover: Any barrier between an attacker and defender. Such a barrier can be an object, a creature, or a magical force. Cover grants the defender a bonus to Armor Class.

concealment: Something that prevents an attacker from clearly seeing his or her target. Concealment creates a chance that an otherwise successful attack misses (a miss chance).

 

[werk]

I'm not sure how many ways I can talk about the movement effect analogy. What isn't making sense about that part of my responses that you keep cutting it?

It's because your last post was made AFTER mine.

"Movement oriented effects, like bonuses to Dex, benefit the image. " Is compelling and makes sense. But I think you put too much weight on the visual description of the spell rather than the actual mechanics of how magic works in D&D (the game, not the place).


and...

You claim that MI is a movement effect, yet if the caster was hasted, the AC of the figments does not increase. "The transmuted creatures move and act more quickly than normal. This extra speed has several effects. ...A hasted creature gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves."

EDIT: Also, don't forget that they are figments, so "Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment."

Since it is not a size or dex modifier, the figments do not gain the benefit, but haste clearly says it is a modifier granted due to increased movement.

This is the difference between an ACTUAL movement effect and a fluff movement effect.