Stacking Transmutations

[TabulaRasa]

Let's address that issue then. As a DM, would you allow it?

yes. No problem.
I think that a high level spellcaster using his damaging spells are much more dangerous than TT'ed spellcaster. It just make one more melee fighter in the party. Good for fighting high HP monsters with unbeatable SR. But considered that the caster is using one 4th and one 7th level spell I think that is ok.
In the right circumstances it would be a very good combo but if the spellcaster is using that tactic all the time he is vesting his spellcasting potential.

/Tabula

 

[Sejs]

Let's address that issue then. As a DM, would you allow it?

Yes, absolutly. If the wizard wants to cast a 4th and a 6th level spell, and use up a Potion of Strength (the TT material component) to turn himself into a berzerk troll, he can do so.

But he still can't use that cloak to alter his appearance after he TTs. Cannot cast spells or use items to cast spells while you're Tenser'd.

 

[Sinjin the Rogue]

Antikinesis

Actually, my point about cat's grace and bull's strength stacking was supposed to be directed to Incognito, who, in his post, questioned whether Transmutation spells stacked. My bust in not addressing that question to him.

Thank you though for seeing that the bonuses from the spells are different and thus do indeed stack. I am the player in question who is considering this tactic. The circumstance that led me to this combo was the fact that in the current adventure, my wizard faces a high number of creatures that have spell resistance. This effectively causes me to waste spells, and in many cases, I find that my wizard is unable, or at best, very limited in contributing to the success of my party's combat encounters. Thus, I am trying to adapt to the situation and do what I can to aid my fellow party members.

Let me also say that Polymorph other and polymorph self are almost the same spell. The only difference is target and duration. So, I would ask, if a wizard used Polymorph Other to turn a sorcerer into a troll, and then three years later, the polymorphed sorcerer cast TT on himself, would the polymorph end? I would say no. The TT'd sorcerer would merely become a troll fighter for the duration of the TT.

Incognito also cited p154 of the player's handbook, quoting:
"One Effect Makes Another Irrelevant". The context of the paragraph discusses spells that have "like" effects, and it specifically refers to what happens when a Polymorphed character becomes the subject of a "Polymorph Other". At that point, the newest polymorph supercedes the old one. Shapechanging can also supercede the effect of a polymorph, because shape changing is a "Like" effect. There is no argument from me in this case at all.

However, TT is not a like effect. TT merely gives the recipient the ability to act as another class for the duration of the spell. It does not change the shape or form of the recipient, and thus Polymorph self and TT are not "like effects".

I think that there is confusion in the fact that Polymorphing into a troll provides certain combat advantages, due to increased ability scores, and Tensor's transformation provides combat advantages based on improved attack bonuses and ability enhancements. As I have already indicated, these bonuses should all stack, and that makes for a formiddable combat opponent for the duration of the Tensor's Transformation. I don't think that this particular question would have arisen though, had I indicated that I was planning to polymorph into a kobold and then follow that up with a TT. The combination is not nearly as effective for a melee combat situation.

 

[Sinjin the Rogue]

Incognito,

Which spell do you consider to be broken? Is polymorph self broken? If you think so, please explain why. If you believe Tensor's transformation is broken, also please explain why.

You seem to think that the combination of the two spells is broken, but again, I would ask why? I'm talking about using a 4th level spell and a 6th level spell, and the sixth level spell would only last for one combat encounter. My opinion is that combining ten spell levels in order to excel in one combat encounter is a decent, if not hefty price tag. Not to mention the fact that the ability to cast spells for the duration of the combat encounter is negated.

You may think that this tactic is "munchkin-ess", but I disagree. What I am suggesting is perfectly within the rules, and it is an intelligent use of the tools at my disposal as a wizard. I am not asking for you to allow "like" bonuses to stack. I am not asking you to allow me to use an endless stream of uber magic items. I am not asking you to allow me to polymorph into forms that the spell specifically denies.

This tactic of mine is no different than that of the paladin in our group who combines power attack, holy smite and other feats in a single attack action. He merely uses the tools at his disposal for maximum effect.

The ability to use these spells in tandem would not take anything away from anyone else in the group either. The fighter types would still be able to do what they do best. I am merely looking at means to cast spells effectively in order to damage foes and garner a favorable outcome.

If I were to cast a disintegrate spell on an opponent, would I then be depriving the fighter types of their abilities, simply because I destroyed a foe before they got the chance to get their licks in? If not, then how is it any different for me to cast a spell that enables me to have a damaging effect on an opponent for a single combat encounter? The only significant difference is that disintigrate is a 6th level spell, has to overcome spell resistance, allows a saving throw and is instantaneous. TT and Polymorph avoids SR, and it does not allow a saving throw, but the combo requires 10 spell levels as oppoosed to 6, it does have to take AC into account, it places the wizard in the front lines, it negates the ability to cast spells and it takes time to defeat an enemy as opposed to being instantaneous. I don't think this is broken or un-balancing.

However, having said all that I have said, you are the DM. If you decide to disallow this combination, then I will abide by it.