Stalker0's Obsidian Skill Challenge System (Update: Version 1.1) Now with PDF!!

[Verequus]

How do I update an attachment on a post earlier in the thread?

-vk

IIRC, you have to edit your old post. There should be an option to delete the attachment and to upload another one.

 

[dammitbiscuit]

I think that, even though this system generally will result in success or partial success with most groups, every DM should try to make a skill challenge that uses certain rare skills in the group so that, hopefully, the party fails at least once. My group doesn't seem to treat skill challenges as being much more exciting than a series of skill challenges, even though I try to be fairly narrative about it. (I'll admit though, it's at least partially a problem with the group - very chaotic and noisy, so some of my narration was probably missed out on, and maybe I'm not good at it, either)

I'm going to try to build one that they fail at so they can feel the sting of defeat and take future challenges more seriously. Letting one of the party members keep a tally of how many successes they have (vs how many needed) may also increase excitement by letting them be more "up-close" to how well they're doing. Any other suggestions on how to make them more invested in what they're doing?

 

[clearstream]

IIRC, you have to edit your old post. There should be an option to delete the attachment and to upload another one.

Thank you. That worked. I needed to go to the advanced editing.

-vk

 

[Stalker0]

Any other suggestions on how to make them more invested in what they're doing?

Up the stakes. Make a success a big benefit, and a failure a real failure. Players will be more interested in teh process if they are more interested in the results.

 

[jensun]

(I'll admit though, it's at least partially a problem with the group - very chaotic and noisy, so some of my narration was probably missed out on, and maybe I'm not good at it, either)

If you are having trouble with this consider doing this:

When players succeed at their skill rolls let them narrate the outcome describing how they have moved closer to their goal. Obviously you need to be explicit about how many successes they need before they can narrate victory.

 

[Stalker0]

Just to give people an update on the future of Obsidian.

Right now, I'm looking at making a small update. Mainly this will be to fix errors with the pdf, and to clean it up a bit. I may also take a look at the combat section of the system, and see if there are any improvements to be made. However, I have no plans to change the core system, so far it has exceeded my expectations.

Many people have asked me about aid another rules, and I promised I would look into them. As I've mentioned, mathematically it is almost never worthwhile to give up your chance to give another person a bonus to their roll in the Obsidian system, even if I made the bonus really high and automatic. What I've been working on is an idea where if you aid someone, you would increase their crit range. So now your giving up your roll, but giving someone else a greater chance for two successes.

So far the numbers have not worked out to my satisfaction. There is too much variance based on the people doing the aiding and its effect on the party's win rate. While I will look at other ideas in the future, currently I have no plans to put in an optional aid another mechanic.

So to summarize, I hope to be doing a small update soon, but it will only be with the optional rules. Please continue to give me your playtest results, and if possible let me know the skills that your party is using. The big thing I'm looking at is whether the Obsidian DC's fit with actual party's in play. Those numbers are based on theory, but especially as party's grow in level, I want to see if their skill numbers are significantly different than what my theory has predicted.

 

[Lord Byron]

Stalker0, what kind of adjustments do I need to make to traps in the DMG in order to use the obsidian system with them? For example, different traps have different complexities, and even have different DC's within the same trap.

Also, for encounters where there are both traps and monsters, do I ask at the beginning who is dealing with the trap and who is dealing with the monsters and lock that in place, since the amount of successes required are tied to players involved?

Thanks.

 

[Stalker0]

Stalker0, what kind of adjustments do I need to make to traps in the DMG in order to use the obsidian system with them? For example, different traps have different complexities, and even have different DC's within the same trap.

Also, for encounters where there are both traps and monsters, do I ask at the beginning who is dealing with the trap and who is dealing with the monsters and lock that in place, since the amount of successes required are tied to players involved?

Thanks.

To your first question, the answer lies with the level of the trap. Use that level to determine your Obsidian DC. In general the Obsidian system assumes a skill challenge is a complexity 3... you don't need to do a true conversion of complexities from the DMG. The reason is the DMG uses both complexity and DC to determine difficulty. Obsidian only uses DC, and my DCs are based on using my system, not DMG complexities.

To your second, use the number of players in the combat as the basis for how many successes you need, and then let players choose how they want to divy up their actions as the combat continues. For a combat challenge, a player can make a skill check as a move action. So for example, your rogue could use two move actions on disabling a trap (3 with an action point). Or he could spend one move action disabling while he uses his standard to attack the guard right near the controls, etc.

The combat system assumes that the difficulty for players is more geared towards choosing whether to do more skill rolls or more fighting. As mentioned above, a rogue in a party of 5 could theoretically win the skill part of the challenge single handedly in about three rounds, but that's three rounds of combat he hasn't been hurting anything. Or the party as a whole could choose to give up some of their actions and make checks and try to win the skill part faster. Or...they all could ignore the skill part and focus on the combat, and then suffer the penalties for failing the challenge.

All of these choices are a part of the combat skill challenge, and are all perfectly fine decisions as far as the system is concerned.

 

[Lord Byron]

So, should each segment, using the definition of the word from the first post, last 5 skill checks no matter who they are coming from or how long it takes? Or does each segment last one round?

In your example, the rogue could make 7 skill checks over 3 rounds. If each round is a segment, the party can't succeed if they have five party members, even with amazing rolls from the rogue (all 7 successes.) If each segment lasts five skill checks, then one party member can do all of the skill checks, which I see as a problem in a challenge that isn't time sensitive in terms of rounds, not to mention a problem with the core system.

So, should one member be allowed to take on a challenge when it is mixed with a combat, but everyone must be involved outside of it?

 

[Stalker0]

So, should each segment, using the definition of the word from the first post, last 5 skill checks no matter who they are coming from or how long it takes? Or does each segment last one round?

In your example, the rogue could make 7 skill checks over 3 rounds. If each round is a segment, the party can't succeed if they have five party members, even with amazing rolls from the rogue (all 7 successes.) If each segment lasts five skill checks, then one party member can do all of the skill checks, which I see as a problem in a challenge that isn't time sensitive in terms of rounds, not to mention a problem with the core system.

So, should one member be allowed to take on a challenge when it is mixed with a combat, but everyone must be involved outside of it?

There are two ways to do a combat skill challenge in Obsidian, time-sensitive or not time-sensitive.

Lets go with the the trap as an example. A group of 5 players need 6 successes to obtain partial victory, and 8 for total victory. They have 3 rounds to do that in. The party can use as many move actions as they want to make skill rolls in an attempt to face the challenge. At the end of three rounds if they don't have the required number of successes they face the failure penalty. In this example, the rogue can at best get a partial victory by himself, he needs assistance to get a total victory.

In an untimed skill challenge, you don't use the standard 3 segments. Instead, players can choose when to use skill checks throughout the challenge. If they don't roll, then they will never get the benefits of succeeding at the challenge, but they don't take any failures. Its just a question of whether players would like to focus more on the skill rolls or on the combat rolls. In this case, the rogue could decide to take many rounds and disable a trap that's hindering the party while the party fights some other monsters. Or everyone could focus on the trap, and take it out quickly. Or the party could ignore the trap entirely, taking whatever attacks it has while disbatching the other monsters.


I'll be honest, I like the untimed combat challenges much better. In fact, my next update will be mainly over the combat skill challenge system. I think the 3 segment system works great for normal skill challenges, but not as well for combat challenges.