Standard encounter budget - too easy?

[OchreJelly]

Our group has been playing 4E since release and we've mostly followed published adventures. I do like to tinker with encounters from time to time, but I typically stay within the recommended xp budget.

The group is in low paragon now, and I've found that they often roll through most of the "normal" budget encounters. By roll I mean they never use second winds, the leader may not even have had to expend all their encounter healing, they expend very few surges at the end of the fight, and they may not have even hit bloodied during the fight. They may use 1 or maybe 2 dailies in a "normal" fight. This has maybe been evident the last 4 levels. Most of heroic had some tougher fights that, to me, felt more typical a resource expenditure from a normal encounter.

I am using the standard wealth guidelines (usually taking the rewards straight from the published adventure or a level-equivalents). The group is 2 strikers, 1 leader, 1 defender, and 1 controller. They are pretty good with tactics and teamwork which I feel is key to them getting by.

What I'm wondering is if this is typical of other groups? Is this some unexpected "power-bump" from hitting low paragon, or possibly more a function of learning the game better and they're "hitting their stride" as a team? Do published adventures "go easy"?

I think it's fine that they are succeeding but I'm beginning to wonder if I should tailor encounters with the "hard" budget more constantly to prevent things from getting dull.

 

[WampusCat43]

My guys are 10th level and smoking any encounter near their level. I've reached the point where I just start throwing together an group of critters for theme, then checking the level later, rather than following the guidelines strictly. You develop a pretty good idea of what will be a challenging fight just from looking at the monster powers and defenses, plus the arena in which the encounter will take place.

 

[Obryn]

I think the good tactics and the great party mix are the key here. Having two strikers is a huge benefit.

Still, in my own game, I don't expect encounters equal to the party's level to be a serious challenge... IMO, those are the ones the party should mostly be able to handle without huge efforts. I think that the only way to make them a serious challenge is by playing dirty pool like in many H1-3 encounters - where there's a room feature which sucks for the PCs, helps the monsters, and doesn't figure into the XP budget.

-O

 

[AllisterH]

My impression was always that a standard encounter shouldn't be taxing.

I've always seen it like this

Standard encounter (Level 0/+1)

Should be doable with just encounter powers and that even if you just use your at-wills, nobody should be hittingt he dirt and rarely should most of the party hit bloody. Probably don't need much in combat healing.

moderate Encounter (Level +2/+3)
Every PC should be using either an action point _OR_ dailies (not both unless your PCs have bad party cooperation). Every PC should at least hit bloody and thus every one needs at least a couple of surges.

Difficult Encounter (Level +4/+5)
Break out everything. Dailies, action points, massive healing and there's a high chance of at least one Pc outright dying with a slight chance of total TPK if the PCs don't realize running away is a valid option.

*Keep in mind also, it depends on what monsters you are using. The MM1 monsters were mostly bags of HPs whereas the MM2 monsters have higher damage potential. Compare say the Roc or Phoenix to their equivalent levelled counterpart in MM2*

 

[weem]

Yea, standard budget encounters have not been a problem in our games either. I generally build them a bit tougher, especially now as everyone is pretty familiar with the system/tactics and playing their characters efficiently - standard is a bit too easy most of the time anymore.

 

[MrMyth]

It really depends on the group, in the end. I've found the standard encounter budget is a good starting point, but to then adjust from there based on the players and the PCs.

When putting together encounters, I tend to favor having a lot of quick 'brutal' encounters at the PCs level, often featuring skirmishers, artillery, minions, and other enemies that will hit hard but then fall fast. That way those fights are over quickly, but still drain away key resources. Even if the PCs make short work of them, they definitely feel they've been in a fight.

Then, for fights I want to actually be challenging, I go for something a couple levels up, with tougher enemies and controllers that can serve as 'counters' for the usual PC tricks.

It has worked well for me - but it is only one way to set up encounters. I do think the rules somewhat fall on the side of keeping things easy, but that is easy enough to adjust for once you've seen a group in action.

 

[renau1g]

Yeah the standard encounters are quite a bit too easy IMO as well. I just started my first game DMing 4e and tried the Scales of War adventure. The group was barely touched after the first encounter (2 surges required from the overzealous rogue), of only 3 PC's. The next fight was very similar. Two surges required from the cleric.

Our group is: 1 rogue, 1 warden (with mordenkrad) and one cleric of Tempus with Greataxe.

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

Terrain

A lot of us DMs who come from earlier editions sometimes forget to add interesting/challenging terrain to the encounters we design.

A goblin sharpshooter out there in the open is definitely not the same as a goblin sharpshooter in a 15 foot high ledge, behind cover...


edit: Also, zombies+swamp=voodoo nightmare

 

[weem]

A lot of us DMs who come from earlier editions sometimes forget to add interesting/challenging terrain to the encounters we design.

A goblin sharpshooter out there in the open is definitely not the same as a goblin sharpshooter in a 15 foot high ledge, behind cover...

That's true, and I will admit this is a fault of mine from time to time, but I try

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think the standard encounter budget is designed to allow the PCs to "breeze through" and to just cost some resources - theoretically, you could have half a dozen or so of them per day, and once you're out of healing surges, you will feel a certain degree of threat and the need to turn to daily powers and action points.

I am not sure how accurate AllisterH list is, but it's probably a good start. I would object to the idea that every party member has to be bloodied in some combats - sometimes, one or two party members take the brunt of the damage, and are bloodied multiple times (and sometimes even reduced to 0 or less hit points) and the Leader is struggling to keep them alive.

I must admit that I never really have the opportunity to run through the WotC adventures using the standard assumptions, since we usually have only 3 or 4 players available. I modifiy encounters occassionally, sometimes to make them easier, sometimes to make them harder.

If you feel it's too easy and it's not just your tactics, just add a monster or two.