"Standard Thief S***"

[RFisher]

Finally, does a procedure like this essentially nullify the fun of traps in a dungeon?

No. It can increase the fun of traps because it can jump you past the tedious part to the fun "I've found a trap: Now what is it & what do I do about it" part...or the equally (if not more) fun "you've just sprung a trap" part.

That said, any player who routinely reduces his character's actions down to "that rogue s***" (as a player of rogues, I hate it when people call me a thief) is begging to be taken by an encounter or trap that unfolds in an unexpected manner. Adventures are adventurous because they aren't routine; when players slip into that sort of routine behaviour, I think it's time to shake things up a bit.

Yes!

Otherwise it is entirely a judgment call of the player whether or not to search for a trap; but wouldn't an experienced rogue know far more about when and where to expect traps than any of us?

Sure. But an experienced fighter would know when to Power Attack & when not to better than any of us. Or when to shield bash.† That doesn't make it any less fun to make those decisions as players, though. We just differ in what we each find fun to decide as a player & what we'd rather leave up to mechanics.

†Of course, the analogy breaks down because when to do these things in the game may have nothing to do with when to do them in real life. As players of the game with access to the rules, we do know better than the experienced fighter when best to choose these options in the game. On the other hand, though, we also tend to have a pretty good idea of when & where to search for traps when playing the game.

 

[RFisher]

There can also be a lot of fun in developing the SOP. There is no canonical SOP &, I believe, no best one.

 

[hong]

SOP for the other PCs can also be interesting. "And THIS time, we stay 20 feet AWAY from the rogue when he's defusing the bomb!"

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

I've been allowing players to use SOP for decades because all the soothing benefits it provides far outweigh any new additional irritations. I don't play "Gotcha!" with players who otherwise would forget the one important step at the wrong moment, or just get fed up with the tedium and skip it altogether. THAT is what sucks the fun out of the game.

Now that doesn't absolve players of participation and responsibility. When they are using SOP they WILL be subject to all the dangers it presents. If they choose to stop paying attention to my description then they WILL treat the wierd, glowing, misty thing like every other doorway, corridor section or doodad. If they don't pay attention to my announcements of the RESULTS of the standardized rolls then I have no reason to be sympathetic.

Using SOP also doesn't cause me to make any more rolls than if they performed a rote recitation of their actions, but there ARE still rolls that THEY may need to make. If they stop making those rolls then I have every right and reason to assume that those parts of the procedures are not being performed. If the player is being particularly stupid in that regard I might consider that _I_ have been handed the decision-making authority for the PC by default (and that's something I NEVER otherwise would interfere with). All of this is established with players ahead of time. The occasional reminder is all that I find necessary.

SOP is about facilitating faster, better play by reducing tedium and verbal repetition, not about putting dungeon exploration on autopilot and freeing players from active participation.

 

[lukelightning]

On a side note, when I saw the subject "Standard thief Sh**" my first reaction was that it meant "the rogue wanders off in town committing crimes and sidetracking the adventure and causing problems for the rest of the party."

 

[The_Gneech]

As the designated trap-tripper for the group I play in, I have taken to saying "I greyhawk the door" [1] to indicate (in order) "Listen, Search, Disable Trap, Open Lock, Move Silently to open slightly and peek in without detection". I also go down corridors "in scout mode" meaning "~40' ahead of the party, hiding and moving silently in my elven cloak and boots, doing move-and-search, move-and-search actions, stopping to peek around every corner."

I'm more than content with the DM just taking it as read that I'm taking 10 every time -- I can't roll dice to save my life. If I rolled every turn, I'd be obliterated by traps because I can't roll above a 7. If he'd let me, I'd take 10 on every roll I ever made.

-The Gneech

[1] In honor of "greyhawk the room", meaning to search every nook and cranny, turn every sconce and protrustion, look behind/under/inside everything, and tear open anything (including monster gullets) that might conceivably (if inexplicably) hide treasure.

 

[diaglo]

Thoughs?

nevertheless
in spite of the fact
however
while
even if




a rogue by any other name still needs to say what he is doing.

 

[jodyjohnson]

On a side note, when I saw the subject "Standard Rogue Sh**" my first reaction was that it meant "the rogue wanders off in town committing crimes and sidetracking the adventure and causing problems for the rest of the party."

Same here.

 

[sniffles]

At least you have a rogue who will do those things - check for traps, scout ahead, etc.

In one of our recent campaigns the trap-checking and disabling had to be done by the artificer and the beguiler. The rogue's player hasn't put any ranks in Disable Device or Open Lock. I don't think he has many ranks in Move Silently either. :\

 

[Mark CMG]

Rogue PCs in many of my own campaigns, and in campaigns where I was a player, have announced that the are performing "Standard Thief S***". I generally take this to mean...

(. . .)

If I don't establish a SOP, then it becomes a game of "can the DM catch me forgetting one of my standard steps".

(. . .)

Maybe it's because I don't find them fun, and maybe it's because any reasonably cautious rogue is going to find them?

Thoughs?

I try to emphasize the running clock, that I almost always try to introduce to any scenario. This prevents the idea that a group will stand around every ten feet to allow a rogue to scour the area for ten minutes. When rogues have to be more choosie aboout when they bring those skills to bear, nothing seems standard anymore and they do not get so blasé. I admit that I purposefully don't trap or lock each and every doorway, though, in deference to this policy of pacing.