Star Wars Saga, the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

[HeinorNY]

Think of it this way...

The power's always been there, or the potential at least. There are hundreds of people in a small town, millions in a large city, billions on a planet and almost infinite numbers of people out there in the galaxy at large. The story can only focus on a few at a time, though... Should it focus on Joe Farmer who's going to tend his moisture farms until the ripe old age of 43 when his planet is randomly destroyed by the death star, which he never saw coming, or should it focus on his neighbor Jack Farmer who's always had a wanderlust in his soul and a knack for kickin' ass, who doesn't know it but tomorrow he's going to find his ticket off this one-horse backwater planet?

I know which story I'd rather watch/read/play.

I thought about that! I'm not saying the book is bad or wrong the way it is, it just enforces a style of gaming that is not mine.
I have the book.
I'm playing a SAGA campaign.
It's being awesome. The combat is pure fun.
I'm not complaining about what the book can or can't be. It's a RPG book, it can be almost anything I want the way I want. I'm complaining for what the book IS. What it enforces, all the game concepts behind the rules.
Sure I can take the rules and use them to play it with the kind of style I enjoy, but it doesn't change the fact that the book IS focused on a cinematic style of gaming, the rules WERE dumbed down to reach that concept and combat IS the main focus, even more than it is in D&D, and evertyhing in the book is about it. All the paths lead to it. All the rules, the character concepts, powers, feats, almost everything leads to the "fast-paced-cinematic-combat". Does it works? Sure, combat is pure fun, the book is ALL about, but it is also ONLY about it. They made a fantastic effort to reach it, but forgot all the rest that also makes the game a roleplaying game.
As I said in my first post, the book is all about squares, miniatures and combat.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

You could always just have no NPCs with the NPC class, they have only heroic class levels.

 

[Klaus]

And of course Star Wars Saga is cinematic. It's based on a cinema series. To be anything but cinematic would be to miss the whole point of adapting Star Wars to a RPG, wouldn't it?

 

[HeinorNY]

You could always just have no NPCs with the NPC class, they have only heroic class levels.

And that's exactly what's going on in my campaign. I also took away the bonus damage per lvl, the extra HD in the first lvl, and other minor stuff, "smarted up" some of the combat rules, just to reach the standard D20 level of complexity, changed the dark side rules, so "Early in her training, a Force-user finds that the dark side greatly enhances her abilities. After a time the dark side demands more and more of those in it's embrace."
After 12 sessions I'm still adjusting it to my group's taste, but it is working pretty nicely.

 

[HeinorNY]

And of course Star Wars Saga is cinematic. It's based on a cinema series. To be anything but cinematic would be to miss the whole point of adapting Star Wars to a RPG, wouldn't it?

It depends man. It's a matter of personal opinion, so it can't be right or wrong, good or bad.
Star Wars is not just the movies. It is also lots of books, games, comics, all that information in wookeepedia, (but not the wookieepedia itself), it's a universe, a big setting. I'd rather have a book about how to play in the Star Wars Setting instead of a book to play the star wars movies, got it?

For the last time, i did not say the book is bad or wrong for being cinematic only, i said it is bad (for me) because it does not cover my style of playing. I don't totally like it or dislike it, I just think it could be much much better, thus I'm a little disapointed.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

I usually kick the Dark Side up a notch.

I play "The Dark Side". As the GM, the Dark Side is alive and hungry and willing to make a deal. It is, essentially, the Devil.

I bribe, I cajole, I nudge. I give out free power. I guarantee victories.

Nobody takes me up on it.

--fje

 

[HeinorNY]

In our first Star wars campaign using the D20 system, years ago, since everybody was playing Jedi characters, the GM's main objective was to create situations to tempt the character and players to give themselves to the dark side. Many fell, led by anger and revenge and the will to destroy the opponents at all cost. Others tapped the dark side for fear of dying or failing their missions. It was really cool to tempt the character into getting a little more power using a Dark Point. In the earlier levels it was pretty powerful, but the possibility to fall to the dark side was very vivid and was around us all the time. But not with SAGA, since to get some power from the Dark Side the character needs to spend some character resources, as talents and force powers. It's harder to tempt the players buy a talent, it is possible, but IMO not as half fun as it was in the previous editions.
One of my player gave me an ideia that characters simply could not get rid from their DarkSide score, they should not be able to spend a Force Point to atone. It would be permanent as if the character was fully a dark sider, only reversable through really dramatic and heroic actions. I'm still thinking about it.

 

[Kaffis]

Some people said if I want to play beyond 20, then I shouldn't play Star Wars. Well, thats not really the point. The problem is you have a resource that is level dependent but then at 20th level you have no way to ever regain this resource. So if a non-Jedi character (or a Jedi who did not take the ability to reclaim his spent force points) gets to 20th level and uses up all their force points, what are they supposed to do? They are just permanently handicapped? This is a logic flaw in the game itself. And in my opinion its a pretty serious flaw.

When you get to level 20 and run out of Force points -- you should consider yourself out of luck and due for retirement to a nice, non-stressful beach planet.

Seriously. I mean, you're already among the half dozen most powerful beings in the universe, if you haven't amassed enough power to delegate the danger to others by now, well, I don't know what to say.

Think about it this way. If Yoda and Palpatine are 20th level characters...

... a 20th level Noble has at least a planet to run, probably a sector. With that office comes bodyguards, secretaries, and chefs. Drive your desk and you don't really need Force points to save you from danger. As for force points to help you on your persuasion rolls -- you've got a +10 on top of your massive attribute and skill training... you can handle the negotiations with the lesser beings without the Force.

... a 20th level Soldier has a fleet to command. You've got MPs and capital ships protecting you even as you go into battle. Hell, a 20th level soldier probably isn't leading from the front lines anyways, he's got his 16th level Generals and Admirals out there to delegate to as he coordinates his army's strategic operations on multiple fronts from his safe HQ on the capitol world.

... a 20th level Scoundrel runs his own syndicate/guild, can produce bounty hunters with a snap of the fingers, and generally has everybody in such awe or fear of him that nobody would try to kill him anyways. Alternatively, he might just own a really profitable grey-market garage, tricking out the spaceships for the ace smugglers and crime moguls alike, and if any of them get uppity and think about offing you to avoid payment -- you can talk your way out of it and just take the loss, it's not like you don't have the money to spare.

... a 20th level Jedi has the Force point recovery technique. If you don't, well, you deserve to run out, sorry. Sure, you can't go willy-nilly, but there's no reason you shouldn't be able to maintain a steady use of one or two per encounter indefinitely, and that's better than anybody else can do of any level. Alternately, you can hunt around for dark siders to redeem if that's your destiny.

... a 20th level Scout probably has the most to complain about in this regard. The harsh wildernesses don't go any easier on you (especially not when you're probably seeking out even more inhospitable uncharted systems than when you were young), and the nature of your passion isn't one that you can delegate easily.

Point being, of course, that when you're Yoda-and-Palpatine-level-kind-of-powerful, you don't assume much personal risk anymore, because the only things that are a challenge for you anymore involve such broad strokes and legions of people under your command.