D&D 5E Starter Set Tweak -- Starting at a higher level

[Nemio]

I would definitely recommend warning PCs off this course of action and not forcing the confrontation in town until they've run the cave hideout on the trail -- the Redbrands are 3 HD warriors. They pulled off a surprise round in the first encounter in my campaign and really gave my 2nd level heroes pause.

And how would you do this without saying "They are lvl 2 and too strong for you right now" ?
And then after leveling up
"You suddenly feel strong enough to take on the Redbrands."

That's a general genuine question I have about DnD

How can your PC know how powerful they are compared to other beings, especially humans?

When comparing to video games:
In WOW you could hover over the name and see the lvl.
In Skyrim you wouldn't know until it's too late and you're getting beaten.

I like the last one better actually.
You have to give your characters some freedom right?
But not to kill them perhaps you could only let them fight a low number of stronger enemies to dissuade them from continuing?

 

[DMZ2112]

And how would you do this without saying "They are lvl 2 and too strong for you right now" ?
And then after leveling up
"You suddenly feel strong enough to take on the Redbrands."

That's a general genuine question I have about DnD

How can your PC know how powerful they are compared to other beings, especially humans?

That's not a question about D&D; it's a question about exposition. Characters learn things about potential opponents by looking at them, gauging their appearance against their experiences, and applying a bit of instinct or common sense. As the dungeon master it's your responsibility to make sure the players get that information so they can make an educated (if not actually intelligent) decision about whether to enter combat (or do anything in game, for that matter).

Personally, I had the NPC the PCs met in the trailside hideout express limited concern for their wellbeing when they announced they were going after the brigands, comparing the brigands' military training and superior armament to the monsters' disorganization, small stature, and poor weapons. He did this because while they had leveled up they were still only 2nd level. He did not tell them not to go, but he exhorted them to be careful and wished them luck, the implication being that they would need some of it.

But even in the absence of the NPC, a 1st level PC should walk up the road, see that bar full of brigands, and know /immediately/ that he's out of his league. The brigands have muscle tone that speaks to years of combat training. Their armor is expensive, and in good repair. Their eyes have that peculiar animal darkness that comes from watching men and women who deserved better die on their blades.

Can you ever be 100% certain that players will take the hint when you try to warn them off a deadly encounter? No. Even the players who aren't imbeciles are still at the table to take risks. Risks make good stories. But if you run an encounter that ends in a rout or a TPK, and the party complains that they didn't realize the enemy was that powerful, you didn't do your job.

When comparing to video games:
In WOW you could hover over the name and see the lvl.
In Skyrim you wouldn't know until it's too late and you're getting beaten.

I like the last one better actually.

To each his own. The WoW system may be unnecessarily precise for feedback, but the Skyrim system is just crap game design, and it would be whether the game were tabletop or electronic. Real people have senses, and they use them. As the dungeon master or the programmer, you are the medium for those senses. Robbing players of those senses because you're not required to let them be used just smacks of cruelty or laziness.

 

[Nemio]

Thanks for your answer, I think I've gained some XP while reading it

 

[DMZ2112]

Thanks for your answer, I think I've gained some XP while reading it

Sorry if I was a bit, er, straightforward. This thread has been confusing for me; I'm not sure how much of it is genuine advice-seeking and how much of it is advocating a certain style of dungeon mastery.

I feel pretty strongly about not skipping 1st level, and about promoting good dungeon mastery. It's not something everyone can do but the only way to get better is to do it.

 

[Nemio]

Sorry if I was a bit, er, straightforward. This thread has been confusing for me; I'm not sure how much of it is genuine advice-seeking and how much of it is advocating a certain style of dungeon mastery.

I feel pretty strongly about not skipping 1st level, and about promoting good dungeon mastery. It's not something everyone can do but the only way to get better is to do it.

No problem, perhaps I wasn't completely clear.
I'm just someone new trying to gather helpful advice from all the experienced DM's and players on these boards

 

[GMMichael]

I understand the demo starts at first level, but did anyone else read that the game generally assumes 2nd or 3rd-level starting characters?

How can your PC know how powerful they are compared to other beings, especially humans?

When comparing to video games:
In WOW you could hover over the name and see the lvl.
In Skyrim you wouldn't know until it's too late and you're getting beaten.

DMZ used my preferred technique - the DM avatar (that being a helpful NPC). Skyrim, for the record, threw in a helpful comment in dungeons: like Lydia's admonition, "I've got a bad feeling about this."

In an ideal game, your PCs would want to do their own homework - "just how fragile is my PC?" If this doesn't even occur to them, try scaring them a bit

 

[drjones]

Just wanted to say, unless your players are really risk averse to the point that losing a character they have only played for a few hours would give them a sad you can still just start at 1 and it will probably be fine. As others have said don't roll for damage if you are concerned and give the players lots of hints that they are bumbling newbies on their first adventure so they should be careful.

In our game only one PC died and the player made a new one. I think it made things more exciting for everyone to know it was possible if unlikely. And as pre-gens that would be remade soon anyway there was not a lot of personal attachment. I think having the characters abilities come in over a series of sessions also made it easier to learn how to play them.

 

[Nemio]

Just wanted to say, unless your players are really risk averse to the point that losing a character they have only played for a few hours would give them a sad you can still just start at 1 and it will probably be fine. As others have said don't roll for damage if you are concerned and give the players lots of hints that they are bumbling newbies on their first adventure so they should be careful.

In our game only one PC died and the player made a new one. I think it made things more exciting for everyone to know it was possible if unlikely. And as pre-gens that would be remade soon anyway there was not a lot of personal attachment. I think having the characters abilities come in over a series of sessions also made it easier to learn how to play them.

How did you handle the PC death?

I imagine it would take some time to create a new one with a background that fits nicely in the Starter Set story.

I wonder if I should have one or more backup PC's ready for the new players I'm going to play with.
Otherwise they would be just sitting there without being able to participate.
Not the introduction I'm aiming for

 

[DMZ2112]

I understand the demo starts at first level, but did anyone else read that the game generally assumes 2nd or 3rd-level starting characters?

Google Cache of the January 2014 article

The game assumes nothing. It gives the option of starting at 1st level, for true fans, and 3rd level, for terrible, terrible people.

...Really, the option exists to start at /any/ level, just like it always has...

How did you handle the PC death?

I imagine it would take some time to create a new one with a background that fits nicely in the Starter Set story.

I wonder if I should have one or more backup PC's ready for the new players I'm going to play with.
Otherwise they would be just sitting there without being able to participate.
Not the introduction I'm aiming for

That's one way to handle it, and I've done that before, but the adventure really isn't /that/ deadly, and character generation in D&D5 is extremely fast. As for the "Starter Set story," there isn't much of one. In the beginning, at least, it's a bread-and-butter run, to use Shadowrun lingo. Any adventurer off the street could be enticed to participate for any number of reasons.

 

[drjones]

How did you handle the PC death?

Well it was towards the end of the session and was pretty much an unforced error, in a battle with the last of the goblins the fighters left following the leader away and the wizard ran up to the goblins. So he was not particularly salty about it. Since the session was about over it was not a major setback. Also, I let him know that since we were using pregens he could 'roll' a nearly identical wizard and bring him in at the same level as the other players. They are all remaking their characters when the PHB comes out anyway. I suggested he use the same mechanical stuff and just grab a different background. It doesn't have to tie into the campaign necessarily that is fun and provides RP ideas but it is not a requirement to move the plot along or anything.