Starting a new game

[kolikeos]

Hi, I haven't visited this forum in quit a while, but I remember this was a great place to ask for DMing advice.
After about a year of not touching any roleplaying game, I'm about to start DMing a 3.5 D&D game for a group of 3 or 4 players.
Everyone already played D&D 3 or 3.5 at some point in the past so we know most of the basics regarding the rules.
In previous D&D games I've DMed or played in it was mostly hack-and-slash style with little actual role-playing, and I want this game to be different. So do the players, except one who seems to want to only kill things and take their stuff.
How do I cater to both needs? Or even better would be to inspire that player to role-play a bit too, any suggestions?
Also, I dislike the 'kill-to-level-up' way D&D works, so I though of handing out XP based on role-playing, character development and story development. I got this idea from the way character points are awarded in GURPS at the end of each session. Do you think this is a good idea?
Another important change from previous games is that I want the story to revolve around the motivations and choices of the players, which will hopefully not be only to accumulate wealth. Usually it was just "you heard rumors about a dungeon" and they go off to kill said dungeon's inhabitants. I'm planning to ask each player to come up with a minimal back story for his/her character, from which I hope to create the first few adventures.
Great theory, but I've never run a game like this before so I’ll gladly have your advice on the matter.
I’m planning to start play with all the characters being in the same roadside inn when something horrible happens, forcing them to work together in order to survive. Said horribleness will be a spell that causes the furniture in the inn to become animated (stats of tiny animated objects) and attempt to kill everyone inside. Probably in the middle of the night for spookiness effect.
From there I don’t really know what will happen, it’s mainly designed to be an introduction between the characters, but what reason do they have to work as a group from now on?
I’d be thankful for any suggestions and advice on how to start and run this game.

 

[der_kluge]

In previous D&D games I've DMed or played in it was mostly hack-and-slash style with little actual role-playing, and I want this game to be different. So do the players, except one who seems to want to only kill things and take their stuff.
How do I cater to both needs? Or even better would be to inspire that player to role-play a bit too, any suggestions?

First, encourage your players to make up a backstory. That'll make things a lot more personal for them. Killing brigands can be fun - but if the brigands have a clue on them regarding the whereabouts of the dastardly pirate Dread Roberts who also happens to be the guy who killed one of the PCs parents - then it suddenly becomes personal.

Remember that everything the party kills could have a story - well, maybe not mindless monsters, but everything should have a *reason* for being there. That makes the game more realistic.

Also, I dislike the 'kill-to-level-up' way D&D works, so I though of handing out XP based on role-playing, character development and story development. I got this idea from the way character points are awarded in GURPS at the end of each session. Do you think this is a good idea?

I think it's a great idea, and I do something similar. I use Action Points and I reward those for good role-playing or clever ideas. I don't use XP at all. My players don't track it, and I don't reward it. Spells that require it either don't exist, or I find other ways to limit their use, like with disadvantages, for example. I use alternative magic item creation rules to avoid the XP cost.

I level the players up whenever they finish a story arc.

Another important change from previous games is that I want the story to revolve around the motivations and choices of the players, which will hopefully not be only to accumulate wealth. Usually it was just "you heard rumors about a dungeon" and they go off to kill said dungeon's inhabitants. I'm planning to ask each player to come up with a minimal back story for his/her character, from which I hope to create the first few adventures.

Good start.

Great theory, but I've never run a game like this before so I’ll gladly have your advice on the matter.

I like to create a sort of "sandbox" environment (you'll see that term used on here sometimes) where there are various dungeons or story ideas all taking place simultaneously. Think about the Baldur's Gate games, if you've played them, think about how you could go in various directions and find adventure. Something like that. It requires a bit of up-front work, but you could buy a couple of published modules and then say that Dungeon A is to the east, and Dungeon B is in the west, and so long as both are roughly designed for the same level, the party could hear rumors of either dungeon, and instantly have a choice of where to go. Another suggestion is to get a module like Nemoren's Vault which is a good introduction for bringing PCs together at the start of a campaign.

I also like the Wilderlands of High Fantasy campaign boxed set, because the world is just filled with adventure ideas, and it makes this kind of campaign a lot easier. But the boxed set is a bit pricey.

I’m planning to start play with all the characters being in the same roadside inn when something horrible happens, forcing them to work together in order to survive. Said horribleness will be a spell that causes the furniture in the inn to become animated (stats of tiny animated objects) and attempt to kill everyone inside. Probably in the middle of the night for spookiness effect.
From there I don’t really know what will happen, it’s mainly designed to be an introduction between the characters, but what reason do they have to work as a group from now on?

Well, you certainly need a reason for the furniture to animate. That kind of stuff usually just doesn't happen at random.

I'd stick to published modules. There are so many good ones available. Nemoren's Vault is a good choice. I'm also a big fan of the Tomb of Abysthor by Necromancer Games.
Legends are Made, not born is a great introductory module actually designed for 0-level NPCs. Goodman games also sells a lot of introductory Dungeon Crawl Classics modules. Most of these are available as PDFs if you can't find them in print.
Hamlet of Thumble is good, too.

A lot of really good GMs I know build entire campaigns by staggering various published modules and source material together to form a length campaign. This gets easier as you get older, because you tend to acquire a lot more ideas and modules that you can build off of.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

There are far worse persons than der_kluge to listen to on these boards- he's always good for some fine ideas and tweeking, so I'll kind of echo him.

1) There are some really good "adventure path" type products out there- Wilderlands, RttToEE, Savage Tides, Age of Worms, Iron Overlord, etc.- in which you can start off with low level PCs and get to significantly high levels. Because of this, they can be used as a framework for a campaign (especially a sandbox style one) as opposed to just a simple dungeon.

There are also lots of adventure ideas floating around this board. The first link in my sig is a huge thread about ideas.

2) Personally, I've been handing out XP for roleplay since 1Ed. Its very good at encouraging character immersion, but you have to be clear when you hand out the XP that some is for RP and some is for killing, ideally revealing the proportions.

3) Making your players give you background does 2 very good things. First, it makes them think about their PCs in concrete terms, aiding them in RP. Second, it can give you all kinds of adventure hooks- a romantic rival from a PC's past shows up, a mentor asks for help, a family member is jailed, whatever.

4) Starting off in a bar can be fun, especially with a bar fight. In the case of what you're thinking about, perhaps they're all in the inn when a big acting troupe comes in at the same time as a caravan. As the ale flows and some of the troupe performs, spirits get high. At some point, though, somebody in the acting troupe succumbs to his darker side and tries to steal something from someone from the caravan...and triggers something (a la the Pandora's Box legend). The box's owner has time enough to realize that something is wrong, screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOO!" over the cacophony of the happy bar patrons...

And all hell breaks loose!

 

[Ydars]

Backstories are vital for getting the players to flesh out their characters and their motivations.

However, asking players to come up with backstories is often very frustrating and a bit like pulling teeth.........until you offer them experience point or other in game rewards for doing so.

Only then do the more "reluctant" gamers sit down and think of something because they know they will be "left behind" if they don't.

I would give each PC a certain XP award based on plot hooks and storylines in their background. You will need to give them a concrete example of what you want otherwise alot of it might be irrelevent.

They will also need a very brief idea of what your campaign or sandbox is about in order to mesh with it.

 

[Remathilis]

2) Personally, I've been handing out XP for roleplay since 1Ed. Its very good at encouraging character immersion, but you have to be clear when you hand out the XP that some is for RP and some is for killing, ideally revealing the proportions.

Just a note on this.

There is a difference between giving out XP for role-playing and giving it out for GOOD role-playing. Personally, I give out extra XP if the PCs do something that actually furthers the game and story, rather than acting in character. For example, a thief that breaking into a noble's house to find out evidence the noble is actually a doppleganger would warrant XP, but a thief breaking into the noble's house to loot her valuables doesn't no matter how "in character" the act might be.

Players are Pavlovian in that regard; reward them for actions that help tell the story, not their own indulgences. Indulgences (barfights, NPC robbery, or such) are thier own reward.

Lastly, make sure the PCs have some NPCs they can trust; if every ally is a dark-knife waiting to strike, it becomes easier to kill em rather than talk. Encourage contacts (barmaids, innkeepers, old wizard mentors, clergy) and friends/love interests to occasionally do interesting things (need something from the PCs, occasionally be working counter to their goals) but otherwise keep them as off-camera details.

Otherwise, you end up with a group of adventurers who have no friends, no roots, and whose families were slaughtered by orcs.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

There is a difference between giving out XP for role-playing and giving it out for GOOD role-playing.

IMC's, its the difference between a few XP and a lot.

 

[RandomCitizenX]

As others have said, just getting the players to come up with a detailed back story can lead to a staggering amount of RP since the players become very invested in their characters. The first 3.x Ravenloft game I played in did this, and it was without a doubt the most RP filled game of D&D I have ever played with that group. The XP awards for RP can be an excellent tool for encouraging your group to RP since it seems like they have not done it as indepth in the past. In my current campaign I am actually going so far as not giving out XP at all (I realize this isn't an option in 3.5 if you have anyone making magic items). Instead, the characters level up whenever the story dictates it.

 

[Ydars]

RandomCitizen; I have a question. Do you find this approach to XP changes the way players approach the game? I mean if they don't get XP for killing things, do they actually start to behave like heroes often do in books/films (i.e. avoiding conflict if at all possible)?

 

[bento]

In previous D&D games I've DMed or played in it was mostly hack-and-slash style with little actual role-playing, and I want this game to be different. So do the players, except one who seems to want to only kill things and take their stuff.

Good thing about the game is you can often accomodate several different styles whether during a single session or over several. A good plan would be to make sure you have different opportunities during the session for different types of activities to take place. I also recommend running different types of adventures.

A really good source for learning how to do this is the Dungeon Master Guide 2. The front section provides tips and tools on how to plan and hit the right buttons for your players. About every 9 to 12 months I re-read it and pick up something new.

Also, I dislike the 'kill-to-level-up' way D&D works, so I though of handing out XP based on role-playing, character development and story development. I got this idea from the way character points are awarded in GURPS at the end of each session. Do you think this is a good idea?

I'd second der_kluge's advice on XP and action points. There's info on how to manage action points in both the Eberron Campaign Setting book and Unearthed Arcana. As for levelling up, don't give XP, but level up after accomplishing a story arc. Also make sure you have different ways for your players to solve encounters. If you always offer them opportunities to fight, they are going to take that route. Sometimes you have to pit them against a really powerful foe, or give them incentives not to fight (they solve a short term problem but make matters worse).

Another important change from previous games is that I want the story to revolve around the motivations and choices of the players, which will hopefully not be only to accumulate wealth. Usually it was just "you heard rumors about a dungeon" and they go off to kill said dungeon's inhabitants. I'm planning to ask each player to come up with a minimal back story for his/her character, from which I hope to create the first few adventures.

Some players may take to this while others will not. For those that don't at least insist they provide you some goals, character flaws, traits, etc. You can often use these to get them engaged in the story as much as you can a detailed history. Also be sure to pay back players who give you backgrounds. While it doesn't have to be central to the adventures, its nice that from time to time something from their past or a goal comes up that they can make progress towards.

I’m planning to start play with all the characters being in the same roadside inn when something horrible happens, forcing them to work together in order to survive. Said horribleness will be a spell that causes the furniture in the inn to become animated (stats of tiny animated objects) and attempt to kill everyone inside. Probably in the middle of the night for spookiness effect.

Start with a mystery? That can be a good start, but takes some planning as you'll want to have some of the story perameters figured out. Who's making this happen? Why did they do it? How will the player's action affect things? What do you anticipate the player's actions to lead to?

From there I don’t really know what will happen, it’s mainly designed to be an introduction between the characters, but what reason do they have to work as a group from now on?
I’d be thankful for any suggestions and advice on how to start and run this game.

You might want to also check some of the Story Hour threads for plot inspirations. Some of them are really mind blowing!

Also don't be afraid to steal, er I mean appropriate, a really good story. As long as it isn't one the players are familiar with, it will be new and novel. There is now a lot of 3.5 material in used bookstores and pdfs at heavy discounts. Find out some of the best ones and read through them looking at how you could possibly use them as future advenures. Red Hand of Doom, and many of the Dungeon Crawl Classics by Goodman Games are really good to mine for ideas.

Anyhoo, good luck and we hope to hear back on how it goes!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

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From there I don’t really know what will happen, it’s mainly designed to be an introduction between the characters, but what reason do they have to work as a group from now on?

The first link in my sig is to a thread containing nothing but plots for adventures and campaigns.

I mean if they don't get XP for killing things, do they actually start to behave like heroes often do in books/films (i.e. avoiding conflict if at all possible)?

I can't speak for RandomCitizen, but IMC, I still award XP for killing stuff. It just is at a lower percentage than in a normal campaign.