Stats for Tolkien Elves

[Cedric]

The "Elves" thread in General got me to thinking. If you were going to include a Tolkien-style Elf as a choice in your game, how would you stat it out?

Obviously it would be a +LA of some sort, but what exactly. I was thinking I might do it in two versions...

A low powered and a high powered version. The low powered would be the minimum stat adjustments I would apply and still be willing to call it a version of a Tolkien Elf. The high powered version would be what I truly feel you have to have for a Tolkien Elf.

 

[Endur]

The "Elves" thread in General got me to thinking. If you were going to include a Tolkien-style Elf as a choice in your game, how would you stat it out?

Obviously it would be a +LA of some sort, but what exactly. I was thinking I might do it in two versions...

A low powered and a high powered version. The low powered would be the minimum stat adjustments I would apply and still be willing to call it a version of a Tolkien Elf. The high powered version would be what I truly feel you have to have for a Tolkien Elf.

Don't forget you also have different elf races in Tolkien.

Noldor/High Elves

Sindarin/Wood elves

etc.

 

[Cedric]

Don't forget you also have different elf races in Tolkien.

Noldor/High Elves

Sindarin/Wood elves

etc.

*nods* I was thinking about that, should have mentioned those, thank you!

 

[Falling Icicle]

I would definately give them a bonus to both Wisdom and Charisma. Tolkien elves are the wisest and fairest of all beings. I honestly don't know why DnD elves don't get bonuses to those stats. I guess it's because they wanted them to be balanced with the other normal races. Another powerful thing about Tolkien elves is that they are immortal. They should get bonuses for age, but never any penalties for it.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Give them an extra character level per century of life.

5,000 year old elves, such as Elrond, would have a free +50 levels. Seems to fit the bill.

 

[Dark Seraph]

I would definately give them a bonus to both Wisdom and Charisma. Tolkien elves are the wisest and fairest of all beings. I honestly don't know why DnD elves don't get bonuses to those stats. I guess it's because they wanted them to be balanced with the other normal races. Another powerful thing about Tolkien elves is that they are immortal. They should get bonuses for age, but never any penalties for it.

I agree that Wis & Chr should be their key attributes; I would also include Dex; Alertness Feat as a freebie; and have them earn this by taking 2 levels as Elves before they can take any levels in their chosen class. IMHO, I believe they were regarded as immortals by Humans in LOTR because of their significantly longer life span, but I think D&D got it right with regard to the way they translated LOTR and how this gave form to the Elven and Human lifespans for D&D.

DS.

 

[Felix]

Tolkien elves are the wisest and fairest of all beings. I honestly don't know why DnD elves don't get bonuses to those stats.

They also are the fleetest of foot, the most dexterous, highly skilled in craftsmanship, and most knowledgeable. The list of superlatives for Tolkien's elves is so long that to include all of them you'd have an unplayable PC race.

In terms of power, I thought the Sidhe were an attempt to capture their potency, though admittedly the languor and the contempt for non-Sidhe were turned up. And certainly NPCs.

---

As far as statting Tolkien's elves, you have to ask yourself a question: do you want these creatures to be playable as a PC race, or are you content to have them as NPCs only? Because if the first is the case, you're going to have to find some way around:

Deathless (Ex): Elves do not die from old age or non-magical sickness, nor do they have a maximum age. They may be killed in combat or from poison. They may also die of aggrivated cases of ennui.

That ability. How much LA is this worth?

Also, it's hard to tell from Tolkien's books exactly what abilities come from the race, and which could be better modeled by class levels? Who is to say that Feanor's and the Noldori craftmanship was rooted in race, when they might simply have prized putting ranks in Craft skills?

You will also run into problems with the fact that the great heroes of Tolkien's elves were almost certainly the PC variety; they have class levels and the feats of willpower and physical endurance may very well be due to high base saves and the periodic Tome of Understanding.

I do not mean to try to dissuade you from creating your Tolkien elf, merely to caution you against giving Joe Tolkien Elf all the abilities we only see in their great heroes. They are, after all, great heroes.

 

[Cedric]

They also are the fleetest of foot, the most dexterous, highly skilled in craftsmanship, and most knowledgeable. The list of superlatives for Tolkien's elves is so long that to include all of them you'd have an unplayable PC race.

In terms of power, I thought the Sidhe were an attempt to capture their potency, though admittedly the languor and the contempt for non-Sidhe were turned up. And certainly NPCs.

---

As far as statting Tolkien's elves, you have to ask yourself a question: do you want these creatures to be playable as a PC race, or are you content to have them as NPCs only? Because if the first is the case, you're going to have to find some way around:

Deathless (Ex): Elves do not die from old age or non-magical sickness, nor do they have a maximum age. They may be killed in combat or from poison. They may also die of aggrivated cases of ennui.

That ability. How much LA is this worth?

Also, it's hard to tell from Tolkien's books exactly what abilities come from the race, and which could be better modeled by class levels? Who is to say that Feanor's and the Noldori craftmanship was rooted in race, when they might simply have prized putting ranks in Craft skills?

You will also run into problems with the fact that the great heroes of Tolkien's elves were almost certainly the PC variety; they have class levels and the feats of willpower and physical endurance may very well be due to high base saves and the periodic Tome of Understanding.

I do not mean to try to dissuade you from creating your Tolkien elf, merely to caution you against giving Joe Tolkien Elf all the abilities we only see in their great heroes. They are, after all, great heroes.

I think you make some really good points.

As to Deathless...I have to ask, would I adjust for this at all really? For game purposes there is no practical difference between this and the LONG lifespan of Elves in D&D as it is.

Sure, this is more powerful, but I'm not certain I'm willing to assign an LA penalty to this ability alone.

I could also see Elf requiring a few racial HD levels, but can imagine ways to do it without that also.

 

[Scider]

As far as I understand, it's a popular choice to represent Tolkien Elves by taking the standard D&D Elf and applying the half-celestial template, without the wings and with the aforementioned 'Deathless' ability or its equivalent (which indeed doesn't seem extremely strong). That would make the Tolkien Elf a +4 LA race, something which I think certainly fits the bill quite right...

 

[deltadave]

Noldorian elves are extremely powerful, like anything from Tolkein's First Age. As you progress thru the Ages, the LA should also step down. First Age - +8LA, Second Age +6LA, Third Age +4LA would be my guess. There is a reason that they called Numenoreans, the greatest of all the mannish races, 'angwar' or 'the sickly'...

the lesser elven races also are pretty kickin'. I would probably do 1 below Noldorian LA for the Lothlorien and Grey Havens elves and 2 below for the Elves of the Mirkwood.

If you are going to do Tolkein Elves, why not also do Tolkein Dwarves and Numenorean men?