Staying Heroic!

[CapnZapp]

Replace the challenges and treasure in them, but keep the same plot and physical environment.

Monsters too low level, replace with higher level equivalents, either the monster boosted levels or new monsters.

Treasure not enough, increase it.

Traps now powerful enough, replace them.

This is of course possible. And I have done it several times.

But it can be a lot of work (not only with stats; but sometimes it can be hard to find a monster race five levels higher with the same "feel" as the old one).

And sometimes it simply is downright inappropriate. Some adventures are decidedly low-key.

Much in the same manner some published Paragon tier adventures have a strong Heroic tier flavor. Example: the "Depths of Avarice" adventure from Dungeon. As published, it was a level 13 adventure - but its plot revolved completely around a mine. This made the adventure eminently suitable for "downsizing" (I ran it with level 4 characters), but I would not have run it at its intended level. Saving an old mine simply isn't an adventure idea that works for Paragon. IMO, that is.

So...
...my goal with the above rule was to prolong the time the PCs spend at the Heroic Tier without merely doubling the interval of time between each "ding".

I hope this allows DMs to reduce xp awards further; beyond the point where normally the players would start complaining about too slow advancement. True, they would still not get bonuses for levels very often, but they would get new powers - which in my mind is the truly fun part of advancing anyway!

Only you guys can say if I reached this goal or not...

 

[CapnZapp]

Wow I really like that one...fits with the games design model nicely to have a sort of specialization at each tier.

If you're up for the added rules design, sure.

My table is more of a quick'n'dirty version...

So... maybe the old level drain stuff was a feature?

I take it you jest, but it bears saying: if your players have only level 30 in mind, you should obviously not incorporate this (plus handing out half or quarter xp) into your game. (Better then to run with the standard XP amounts, so that the PCs reach the level where they have all the powers the game allows that much earlier)

This is more for players who feel the journey itself is the goal.

Or at least, it is more for DMs who want to spend more time on each tier, without that translating into getting power-ups more seldom!

 

[KarinsDad]

This is of course possible. And I have done it several times.

But it can be a lot of work (not only with stats; but sometimes it can be hard to find a monster race five levels higher with the same "feel" as the old one).

I am reminded of the splat books with your "problem" here.

When reading splat books, I often see a feat (or power or some such) that shouts to me that an employee at WotC (and this happened for 3E and 3.5 as well) said:

"Hey guys, what if we did xyz? Wouldn't that be cool?"

The cool idea takes precedence over balance or common sense in WotC's case. In your case, the cool idea takes precedence over the problem you are trying to solve.

For example, say one has two adventures that are levels 2 through 5.

Your "problem" is that you cannot run adventurers through both adventures. Your fix is that you slow up leveling, but to compensate for this you give the PCs more powers. Throw a bone to the players in order to justify your change of advancement rate.

But, does your solution really solve the problem?

Well, no it doesn't. The PCs will be level 3.5 with more (higher level than normal) powers after the first adventure (assuming you halve the advancement rate) and then the second adventure will be a LOT easier for them. On the other hand, the end of adventure #1 was a LOT harder for them because even with additional powers, they were only level 3 when they finished it.

You could decrease the difficulty of the latter part of adventure #1 and increase the difficulty of the earlier pat of adventure #2 to compensate for that, but you just explained "But it can be a lot of work" to increase the difficulty of an adventure.

Either way, your solution or the typical solution, work is involved. You appear to propose that adventure modification work is not involved with your solution.

So, I don't see where your solution buys you anything other than "it's cool". In fact, with tools like character builder, your solution actually makes it more difficult for players to build their PC as they try to look through an entire plethora of powers to choose from.

Plus, your PCs will be a lot more capable at early Paragon levels, so P1 type adventures that today do not need a lot of balance modifications would automatically need something to make them challenging for your game.

 

[CapnZapp]

Sorry but how does that post help, KD?

One major point with my proposal is to be able to adventure for longer at the heroic tier. A point you completely ignore...

...as well as the completely legitimate opinion that it would be nice to play a character with plenty of options without that PC having to be very high level.

In fact, if your only agenda is to try to come up with arguments for not changing anything at all, then I must ask why you even bother to post...?

(No wait - don't answer that. I want my thread to discuss the proposal, not why you shouldn't change anything. If, however, you have a constructive counter-proposal, that actually attempts to cater to the sentiment expressed by the thread rather than try to oppose or nullify it, feel free to contribute!)

 

[KarinsDad]

If, however, you have a constructive counter-proposal, that actually attempts to cater to the sentiment expressed by the thread rather than try to oppose or nullify it, feel free to contribute!)

Not my job.

You proposed a rule change.

I pointed out that it does not accomplish what you originally proposed.

Other people pointed out that allowing cross class powers will actually make this a bad idea as well.

Just because you have an idea does not make it a good one. If your goal of posting ideas on the house rules forum is to get people to be cheerleaders for your ideas and never think they are sub-optimal, then your purpose for posting is wrong.

The main reason you proposed the additional powers is because your players would get annoyed at playing the same level for a real long time and not gaining anything.

But, you do not address the fact that you still will need to make changes as DM. You do not address the fact that players will be getting higher level utility powers earlier and how that affects the game system. You do not address how the players being more versatile and powerful, especially at late heroic or paragon affects the game system. You are merely slowing up advancement and handing out bennies for doing so.

If you do not want constructive critiques of what you post, why are your posting?

Note: I'm not saying that your idea is a terrible idea, I'm saying that it is not that good and needs work before becoming a good idea.