Staying silent while not moving

[Deimodius]

Should a mechanic be applied to PCs who are either trying to hide quietly (unmoving) or simply tring to stay quiet?

I would argue that when you are trying to stay quiet while unmoving you still need to master things like the sound of your breathing, and metallic items (like clicking armour, holy symbols, or weapons) that might accidentally make noise, accidentally shifting on dry twigs while in a forest, etc. We make lots of noises we need to master even while not actually moving.

These are not covered by a Hide check, as Hide is opposed by Spot.

When the PCs in my campaign are trying to stay hidden _and_ quiet, I have them make a Hide check _and_ a Move Silently check (modified in their favour of course since they aren't actually moving). They always get annoyed by this and make snide remarks about how their armour is making spontaneous sounds.

So...

1. Should a mechanic be used to oppose listen checks when a char is hiding quietly?

2. Should it be Hide and (modified) Move Silently checks, or...

3. One hide check opposed by the searches Spot _and_ Listen checks?

 

[Len]

If you're stationary and hiding, you roll Hide and Move Silently checks which are opposed by Spot and Listen checks respectively. There is no bonus for standing still; instead, there's a penalty for moving.

From the rules for Move Silently:

You can move up to one-half your normal speed at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than one-half but less than your full speed, you take a –5 penalty.

There's no bonus for staying still rather than moving slowly. I can see how you might think that standing still is quieter than moving slowly, even when lightly armoured. You could give a +2 bonus for standing still, or a -2 penalty for moving up to half your speed, but that'd be non-standard.

The same thing applies to Hide.

I play a rogue, so I'm pretty sure about this. If I'm wrong, though, Strego Cesario is going to have to have a word with the Almighty Die-Roller.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

Well the skill is called Move Silently. The fact that you can move up to half speed with no penalty means that your check indicates how much noise you make while you're moving. I'd be pretty cheesed off if I was a full plate fighter and I was making a Listen DC of 5 amount of noise just by standing still (and that's if I took 10 or rolled a 10). Now if I'm trying to creep around it starts to make sense. Standing still? Heck no. There really shouldn't even be a Listen check involved. If you're slowly trying to draw a weapon, sure, check. But I'm standing here behind this wall, perfectly still, with my weapon ready. I'm not moving. Why do I make a Move Silently check?

 

[Darth K'Trava]

I would say both Hide and Move Silently checks. One to not be seen and the other not to be heard.

 

[The Souljourner]

I'd give a +5 to the move silently check for not moving, akin to the +5 to a listen check for not moving (which I'm sure most DMs forget about).

-The Souljourner

 

[dcollins]

It's a reasonable judgement for a DM to make that some kind of skill check is needed to remain totally silent, even motionless. Personally I only call for a Hide, not a Move Silently (reading the name, as it were). If a Move Silently check was called for at a +5 or +10 bonus, that would seem fair as well.

 

[Keith]

Given the kind of people usually used as PCs, I think treating "shutting up" as any kind of skill check, where the chances of being heard while doing nothing but breathing are more than remote, is pretty unreasonable. A creature with acute hearing that is trying to trace the breathing of a creature it knows to be nearby, OK. But an ordinary person walking by, and a PC is hidden (I agree totally with that check- just because you stand still does not mean you are hidden), and tries to be quiet- they should succeed very often. Sure, you might sneeze once in a blue moon. If you wanted to represent that, I would take it well out of the range of comparing it to actually trying to move quietly. Say, a percentile roll where 100 means you make an inadvertent noise.
Really, though, I think it is kind of a silly thing to bother with for a game about heroes.

" akin to the +5 to a listen check for not moving (which I'm sure most DMs forget about)."
I don't know what that is (so, you may be exactly right...); I don't see it under listen. I do see a DC of 15 even for people whispering- people who are still and silent should do better than that- say, maybe DC 60?

 

[Saeviomagy]

I'd give a +5 to the move silently check for not moving, akin to the +5 to a listen check for not moving (which I'm sure most DMs forget about).

-The Souljourner

They might be forgetting it because it's not there... Or is it written somewhere really unusual?

As to the original question - if they keep bitching about it, tell them they may take 10, an note the bonuses they get for being distant from the listener, for (usually) having the listener distracted etc.

I know for a fact that if I'm hiding and staying still somewhere, my breathing still makes noise, and I can hear my joints creak on occasion because I have to periodically adjust my weight, or I'll fall over...

I can imagine that the effect of platemail would amplify that immensely.

 

[FireLance]

Not in the rules, but if a character is hiding and staying still, I'd only allow a Spot check as a reaction. If he tries anything, e.g. move, draw a weapon, cast a spell, get ready to attack, etc, I'd allow a Listen check as a reaction to be aware of him before he acts.

A character may also actively attempt a Listen check if he can't spot anything. The SRD says the Listen check to hear people whispering is DC 15, so I'd peg the Listen check to hear people staying still and not making any noise at DC 20. I'd call for a Move Silently check with a +10 bonus so an average, untrained person would have a check result of 20, and those with better Dex or ranks in Move Silently would have a better chance of remaining undetected.