Steal Spell, Spell Effect, etc with one attack? Steal from crit immunes?

[Thanee]

Another Spellthief question... you certainly cannot use one ability, i.e. Steal Spell, multiple times on a single attack, but can you use different abilities, i.e. steal a spell and some energy resistance and a spell effect for a total of -3d6 sneak attack, on a single attack?

Also... is a sneak attack still considered successful, even when the target is immune to critical hits? Can you use Steal Spell, etc against such targets?

Bye
Thanee

 

[airwalkrr]

Our group decided no, you cannot steal multiple things with the ability. But that's just us. YMMV

 

[Armadon63]

where does it say you can't steal more then 1 spell at a time? I can't find it in the book.

Oh yeah it says you need to make a successful sneak attack to steal spells so i guess it wont work on undead.

 

[Thanee]

It says you can forego one sneak attack die upon a successful sneak attack under every such ability, that's why you can only steal one spell, for example.

The point with the undead is, that you forego the sneak attack dice before you roll damage and they are immune so they simply ignore the damage. The question is (fluff-wise pretty much)... do you need to be able to actually wound them, or just hit them in a way, that they cannot defend so well (i.e. flat-footed or no Dex, the requirement for sneak attack). I actually think the latter makes more sense, what should stealing spells have to do with damaging internal organs and such, it makes more sense that it is connected to a hit that is hard to defend against, or not?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Armadon63]

yeah but you need to have 1d6 of sneak attack to give up. If you can't sneak attack undead then you never had 1d6 to give up.

 

[irdeggman]

Under each of the "special" stealing abilities it says that they are standard actions.

So you can only do one at a time since you only get 1 standard action per round.

 

[Thanee]

That's only against voluntary targets.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Len]

The point with the undead is, that you forego the sneak attack dice before you roll damage and they are immune so they simply ignore the damage. The question is (fluff-wise pretty much)... do you need to be able to actually wound them, or just hit them in a way, that they cannot defend so well (i.e. flat-footed or no Dex, the requirement for sneak attack).

You cannot sneak attack undead creatures, period.

A rogue can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks.

Steal Spell requires that you make a successful sneak attack, and so it's impossible to steal spells from undead.

By my reading, you can use different "Steal [x]" abilities at once. That is, you can give up 2d6 to steal a spell and steal energy resistance. But, as you said, you can't steal two spells at once.

 

[Scharlata]

You cannot sneak attack undead creatures, period. Steal Spell requires that you make a successful sneak attack, and so it's impossible to steal spells from undead.

By my reading, you can use different "Steal [x]" abilities at once. That is, you can give up 2d6 to steal a spell and steal energy resistance. But, as you said, you can't steal two spells at once.

Hi!

Len's got it right, I guess. That'd be my reading, too. It's kind of vague and there's no official policy from WotC regarding that question.

Kind regards

 

[moritheil]

Time to muddy the waters a bit. You cannot steal spells, etc. from crit-immune creatures (including undead) unless you can get around their immunity to sneak attacks.