jaelis
Oh this is where the title goes?
I don't have any big problem with the PHB rules for stealth and hiding, but I do find them pretty vague in a lot of ways. I feel like I'd rather have a little more structure, both as a DM so I don't feel like I'm constantly ruling on the fly, and as a player so I can know better what to expect.
So I came up with an approach, and I'm curious to have people poke holes in it. I wrote it up nicely, I'll put that in the spoiler, but the basic idea is this:
What you can perceive depends on two factors: how well concealed it is, and how alert you are. Describe both of those factors with three levels.
(1) Unconcealed: You're out in the open and/or making a loud noise.
(2) Partially concealed: You're visible but hard to see and/or making a soft noise.
(3) Totally concealed: You reveal no sign of your presence.
(1) Unaware: You're totally unaware of your surroundings, probably because you're unconscious.
(2) Inattentive: You're relaxed and not expecting danger.
(3) Alert: You're in a situation that you know could be dangerous.
If your alertness level is larger than an opponent's concealment level, then you automatically spot them, no checks required.
If a creature is trying to hide, compare its stealth check to your passive perception. If the creature wins, treat its concealment level as one higher than it actually is.
The hope is that this covers situations both in and out of combat. In combat normally everyone would be alert. Out of combat, maybe a creature is alert, maybe not. If not, then you might be able to sneak by them even without any concealment, but if you have concealment then it's automatic. Sneaking up on a sleeping creature is easy unless you make enough noise to wake them up (which would be it's own separate question with its own DC, since it will depend on other factors.)
Does that seem like something that would work, and are there situations where it seems to break down or give illogical results? Any feedback is appreciated.
[sblock]
Concealment and awareness
Concealment describes how hard it is to notice a creature. There are three possible degrees of concealment:
Unconcealed: The creature is readily detectable to an attentive observer. Normally this means the creature is in plain sight, but other senses might reveal the creature instead. A creature behind half-cover remains unconcealed from vision, as does a creature in dim light or in a lightly obscured area. Any creature making a loud noise is unconcealed from opponents that can hear. Usually, a creature making an attack reveals its presence and location, causing it to be unconcealed.
Partially concealed: The creature is not easily detectable, but various signs can reveal its presence. If the creature is invisible, perhaps it makes noise or leaves footprints. If the creature is hiding silently behind a curtain, perhaps a foot is exposed or bulges in the curtain reveal its form. A creature behind three-quarters cover is usually partially concealed from vision. A creature in darkness or in a heavily obscured area is usually partially concealed as long as it makes only soft noises.
Totally concealed: The creature reveals no discernable signs of its presence. A creature is usually totally concealed if it is in darkness, in a heavily obscured area, or behind total cover and it is not making any noise. Creatures that are not in your vicinity are normally totally concealed from you.
Concealment is relative to an observer. A creature near a wall might be totally concealed from an observer on the other side of the wall, but be unconcealed from an observer on the same side of the wall. Similarly a creature in the dark might be totally concealed from a human, but unconcealed from an elf with darkvision.
If a creature is totally concealed from you, you cannot directly target it with an attack. However, if you guess or deduce the creature’s location, you can attack the space you think they are in. Your attack roll has disadvantage, and no effect that would normally provide advantage can apply. For instance, even if the creature is unconscious, you would not gain advantage on your attack to offset the disadvantage from total concealment.
The impact of concealment depends on the alertness of the creature you are trying to hide from. Again there are three possible levels:
Alert: An alert creature is aware that it is in a dangerous situation and enemies could be nearby. It pays attention to its surroundings and notices any hints of danger. Even a creature occupied with a task can be alert, if it knows there is a need. When you are alert, you automatically notice all unconcealed and partially concealed creatures in your vicinity, but not totally concealed creatures.
Inattentive: An inattentive creature is aware of its surroundings, but not paying close attention to them. Either the creature does not expect danger to be present, or the creature trusts its allies to keep watch. When you are inattentive, you automatically notice unconcealed creatures in your vicinity, but not partially or totally concealed creatures. An inattentive creature who becomes aware of danger instantly becomes alert unless some special effect prevents it.
Unaware: An unaware creature is not cognizant of its surroundings. The most common reason for being unware is unconsciousness, but other effects could cause this status as well. When you are unaware, you don’t notice any creatures around you, but actions those creatures take could make you aware. For instance, a loud noise might wake you up if you are sleeping.
Senses
Vision is the primary method most creatures use to locate enemies. A creature in a lightly obscured area or who is trying to observe an area of dim illumination has disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely primarily on sight. A blinded creature or a creature in a totally obscured area cannot see anything, and a creature cannot see anything in an area with no illumination.
You have disadvantage when you attack a creature that you can’t see, even if it is not concealed from you. Further, a creature that you can’t see has advantage on attacks against you.
Hearing is also useful for locating creatures. For this purpose sounds are classified as loud or soft. Ways to make loud sounds include normal speaking, spell casting, attacking, breaking an object, and moving through noisy terrain like dry leaves or rubble. Soft sounds are made when whispering, interacting with most objects (ie, opening a non-creaky door or drawing a sword), and moving through quiet terrain like sand or low grass. The effect of noise can depend on the environment: near a waterfall or a roaring crowd, noises that would usually be loud might be considered soft. A creature trying to detect soft noises in such an environment has disadvantage on its Wisdom (Perception) checks. Conversely, in a perfectly quiet room, sounds like breathing or a heartbeat might be considered soft while a whisper would be considered loud. A deafened creature cannot hear anything.
Some creatures can use scent to detect opponents. In order to be totally concealed from a nearby creature with a strong sense of smell, you must take measures to eliminate or disguise your odor. Typically you are unconcealed from such a creature if you are within 10 feet of it, but this distance is doubled if you are upwind and halved if you are downwind. Creatures lacking a strong sense of smell can only detect very powerful smells. Powerful smells can overwhelm lesser odors, making it so ordinary creatures can be partially concealed from an observer with a strong sense of smell.
Touch is a short-range but powerful way to detect creatures. Any creature you are touching is unconcealed from you, although in some cases you might not recognize what you are touching.
Stealth
You can make a deliberate effort to hide from another creature by staying out of sight, moving silently, and avoiding leaving signs of your presence. Doing so takes an action due to the care required. When you try to hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. If your result is higher than the passive Perception score of an observer, then you can treat your concealment from that observer as one level higher than it actually is. For example, if you are unconcealed but succeed on your check, you would be treated as partially concealed and thus escape notice by an inattentive observer. An alert observer would still notice you.
After you take an action to hide, you continue to use your check result in subsequent rounds. You can remain hidden until you are revealed, typically either because your actual concealment level changes or because your observer’s alertness level changes.
If an alert creature suspects that an opponent is hiding nearby, it can take an action to make a Wisdom (Perception) check. If its result exceeds your Dexterity (Stealth) score, then you are no longer hidden and your actual concealment level applies. If you are trying to hide from multiple creatures and one of them spots you, then that observer can use an action to let all its allies make a Perception (Wisdom) check to find you.
If you are hidden from a creature when you attack it, then you have advantage on your attack. By attacking, you normally reveal your location and are no longer hidden afterwards. If you must move into the open before attacking, then any resulting loss of concealment applies before your attack, possibly preventing you from gaining advantage.
Invisibility
When you are invisible you cannot be seen, so your attacks have advantage and attacks against you have disadvantage.
Being invisible is useful when you are trying to hide. If you are invisible, silent, and leave no trace of your presence then usually you have total concealment. Typically if you move or interact with an object, you will make soft noises resulting in partial concealment. Even if you are silent, you can reveal your presence through your effects on the environment. For instance, you might leave tracks in snow, or displace tall grass. A wary observer might sprinkle powder on the floor to make footprints visible. In such cases, you generally have no more than partial concealment and you might be unconcealed if the environmental effects are obvious enough.
[/sblock]
So I came up with an approach, and I'm curious to have people poke holes in it. I wrote it up nicely, I'll put that in the spoiler, but the basic idea is this:
What you can perceive depends on two factors: how well concealed it is, and how alert you are. Describe both of those factors with three levels.
(1) Unconcealed: You're out in the open and/or making a loud noise.
(2) Partially concealed: You're visible but hard to see and/or making a soft noise.
(3) Totally concealed: You reveal no sign of your presence.
(1) Unaware: You're totally unaware of your surroundings, probably because you're unconscious.
(2) Inattentive: You're relaxed and not expecting danger.
(3) Alert: You're in a situation that you know could be dangerous.
If your alertness level is larger than an opponent's concealment level, then you automatically spot them, no checks required.
If a creature is trying to hide, compare its stealth check to your passive perception. If the creature wins, treat its concealment level as one higher than it actually is.
The hope is that this covers situations both in and out of combat. In combat normally everyone would be alert. Out of combat, maybe a creature is alert, maybe not. If not, then you might be able to sneak by them even without any concealment, but if you have concealment then it's automatic. Sneaking up on a sleeping creature is easy unless you make enough noise to wake them up (which would be it's own separate question with its own DC, since it will depend on other factors.)
Does that seem like something that would work, and are there situations where it seems to break down or give illogical results? Any feedback is appreciated.
[sblock]
Concealment and awareness
Concealment describes how hard it is to notice a creature. There are three possible degrees of concealment:
Unconcealed: The creature is readily detectable to an attentive observer. Normally this means the creature is in plain sight, but other senses might reveal the creature instead. A creature behind half-cover remains unconcealed from vision, as does a creature in dim light or in a lightly obscured area. Any creature making a loud noise is unconcealed from opponents that can hear. Usually, a creature making an attack reveals its presence and location, causing it to be unconcealed.
Partially concealed: The creature is not easily detectable, but various signs can reveal its presence. If the creature is invisible, perhaps it makes noise or leaves footprints. If the creature is hiding silently behind a curtain, perhaps a foot is exposed or bulges in the curtain reveal its form. A creature behind three-quarters cover is usually partially concealed from vision. A creature in darkness or in a heavily obscured area is usually partially concealed as long as it makes only soft noises.
Totally concealed: The creature reveals no discernable signs of its presence. A creature is usually totally concealed if it is in darkness, in a heavily obscured area, or behind total cover and it is not making any noise. Creatures that are not in your vicinity are normally totally concealed from you.
Concealment is relative to an observer. A creature near a wall might be totally concealed from an observer on the other side of the wall, but be unconcealed from an observer on the same side of the wall. Similarly a creature in the dark might be totally concealed from a human, but unconcealed from an elf with darkvision.
If a creature is totally concealed from you, you cannot directly target it with an attack. However, if you guess or deduce the creature’s location, you can attack the space you think they are in. Your attack roll has disadvantage, and no effect that would normally provide advantage can apply. For instance, even if the creature is unconscious, you would not gain advantage on your attack to offset the disadvantage from total concealment.
The impact of concealment depends on the alertness of the creature you are trying to hide from. Again there are three possible levels:
Alert: An alert creature is aware that it is in a dangerous situation and enemies could be nearby. It pays attention to its surroundings and notices any hints of danger. Even a creature occupied with a task can be alert, if it knows there is a need. When you are alert, you automatically notice all unconcealed and partially concealed creatures in your vicinity, but not totally concealed creatures.
Inattentive: An inattentive creature is aware of its surroundings, but not paying close attention to them. Either the creature does not expect danger to be present, or the creature trusts its allies to keep watch. When you are inattentive, you automatically notice unconcealed creatures in your vicinity, but not partially or totally concealed creatures. An inattentive creature who becomes aware of danger instantly becomes alert unless some special effect prevents it.
Unaware: An unaware creature is not cognizant of its surroundings. The most common reason for being unware is unconsciousness, but other effects could cause this status as well. When you are unaware, you don’t notice any creatures around you, but actions those creatures take could make you aware. For instance, a loud noise might wake you up if you are sleeping.
Senses
Vision is the primary method most creatures use to locate enemies. A creature in a lightly obscured area or who is trying to observe an area of dim illumination has disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely primarily on sight. A blinded creature or a creature in a totally obscured area cannot see anything, and a creature cannot see anything in an area with no illumination.
You have disadvantage when you attack a creature that you can’t see, even if it is not concealed from you. Further, a creature that you can’t see has advantage on attacks against you.
Hearing is also useful for locating creatures. For this purpose sounds are classified as loud or soft. Ways to make loud sounds include normal speaking, spell casting, attacking, breaking an object, and moving through noisy terrain like dry leaves or rubble. Soft sounds are made when whispering, interacting with most objects (ie, opening a non-creaky door or drawing a sword), and moving through quiet terrain like sand or low grass. The effect of noise can depend on the environment: near a waterfall or a roaring crowd, noises that would usually be loud might be considered soft. A creature trying to detect soft noises in such an environment has disadvantage on its Wisdom (Perception) checks. Conversely, in a perfectly quiet room, sounds like breathing or a heartbeat might be considered soft while a whisper would be considered loud. A deafened creature cannot hear anything.
Some creatures can use scent to detect opponents. In order to be totally concealed from a nearby creature with a strong sense of smell, you must take measures to eliminate or disguise your odor. Typically you are unconcealed from such a creature if you are within 10 feet of it, but this distance is doubled if you are upwind and halved if you are downwind. Creatures lacking a strong sense of smell can only detect very powerful smells. Powerful smells can overwhelm lesser odors, making it so ordinary creatures can be partially concealed from an observer with a strong sense of smell.
Touch is a short-range but powerful way to detect creatures. Any creature you are touching is unconcealed from you, although in some cases you might not recognize what you are touching.
Stealth
You can make a deliberate effort to hide from another creature by staying out of sight, moving silently, and avoiding leaving signs of your presence. Doing so takes an action due to the care required. When you try to hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. If your result is higher than the passive Perception score of an observer, then you can treat your concealment from that observer as one level higher than it actually is. For example, if you are unconcealed but succeed on your check, you would be treated as partially concealed and thus escape notice by an inattentive observer. An alert observer would still notice you.
After you take an action to hide, you continue to use your check result in subsequent rounds. You can remain hidden until you are revealed, typically either because your actual concealment level changes or because your observer’s alertness level changes.
If an alert creature suspects that an opponent is hiding nearby, it can take an action to make a Wisdom (Perception) check. If its result exceeds your Dexterity (Stealth) score, then you are no longer hidden and your actual concealment level applies. If you are trying to hide from multiple creatures and one of them spots you, then that observer can use an action to let all its allies make a Perception (Wisdom) check to find you.
If you are hidden from a creature when you attack it, then you have advantage on your attack. By attacking, you normally reveal your location and are no longer hidden afterwards. If you must move into the open before attacking, then any resulting loss of concealment applies before your attack, possibly preventing you from gaining advantage.
Invisibility
When you are invisible you cannot be seen, so your attacks have advantage and attacks against you have disadvantage.
Being invisible is useful when you are trying to hide. If you are invisible, silent, and leave no trace of your presence then usually you have total concealment. Typically if you move or interact with an object, you will make soft noises resulting in partial concealment. Even if you are silent, you can reveal your presence through your effects on the environment. For instance, you might leave tracks in snow, or displace tall grass. A wary observer might sprinkle powder on the floor to make footprints visible. In such cases, you generally have no more than partial concealment and you might be unconcealed if the environmental effects are obvious enough.
[/sblock]
