Stealth Question + Bonus Cover Question

[Markn]

I'm sure this has been asked already. I'm sure it will be asked again...


Does Stealth work this way?

PC is in combat against and NPC. He uses a move action (to move 2 squares) to move behind cover. He makes a stealth check vs an opposed perception check. If he succeeds, the PC will have Combat Advantage for his attack. If he fails he does not have combat advantage.

Part 2.

Same as part 1. He succeeded on his stealth check, attacks and becomes visible. The following round he chooses not to move and the NPC decides not to move either. PC still has cover. Can he make another stealth check to repeat the same tactic or does he need to move before making another check?

Now here is a cover question.

Does one have cover if one of the line knicks a corner of a wall? For example:

W = wall
N = NPC
P = PC
O = Open space

ONOOOO
OOOOOO
WWOOO
WWOPO
WWOOO

This picture is bad but essentially if you draw a line from the top left corner of P to the bottom right of N and it knics the corner of the wall, is there cover?

Thanks!

 

[Kyrail]

If any square hits a barrier while drawing a line to the apposing square, there is cover, even if it nicks... or up to the DM.

Actually this exact scenario is illustrated in the cover section. There s cover in squares I would say would be impossible to see, but that's what superior cover is for.

(PHB, 274), okay this is in the LoS section, but it proves that barely hitting the corner counts for breaking line of sight, and therefore provides cover.

Edit:

On the matter of stealthiness... I can't find any hard rules for this, but my DM judgement would be... keep in mind this is just me talking:

A) If they saw you go in... you're going to have to hide at least a full round before you can really attempt to use hide for combat advantage... they know exactly where you are, or at least the only direction you would be coming from, even for ranged attacks if you only moved 2 squares you didn't move far enough for them to not be able to cover against your attacks.

B) If you're hiding in a 10x10 bush and they saw you go in... well you have cover but no one is that stupid, sorry.

C) if you hide in a large stretch of bushes, or ran around a wall to get behind them or anything that can conceivable make sense that they could lose track of you, go for it.

 

[Markn]

If any square hits a barrier while drawing a line to the apposing square, there is cover, even if it nicks... or up to the DM.

Actually this exact scenario is illustrated in the cover section. There s cover in squares I would say would be impossible to see, but that's what superior cover is for.

(PHB, 274), okay this is in the LoS section, but it proves that barely hitting the corner counts for breaking line of sight, and therefore provides cover.

I'm not so sure LoS and Cover are considered the same. Our group debated that last night without coming to a clear decision.

 

[Kyrail]

I'm not so sure LoS and Cover are considered the same. Our group debated that last night without coming to a clear decision.

I'm positive they are. Cover uses LoS rules to determine cover, its spelled out in the PHB what I consider very clearly.

Let me look.

 

[Kyrail]

Page 273, under the line of sight section designates how cover is achieved, so yeah it uses the line of sight rules to designate cover and concealment.

 

[Markn]

I'll check it out when I get home from work.

Thanks for the answer for my cover questions.

 

[Ziana]

There are numerous ways to gain Combat Advantage.

I believe part of the intended design in 4E is that players make the effort to gain Combat Advantage as often as possible. Having it isn't unbalancing: it's expected strikers will be flanking or using special abilities to gain it. This encourages them to think more tactically, rather than just standing in one place and hitting round after round.

How stealth is supposed to work in combat is unclear: answers from CSRs have been contradictory, and they have reportedly stopped answering stealth questions while working out a consistent set of rulings. However, what we have from the PHB is that:

• Stealth is not a "mode" or condition ala 3E. It's a method you apply to any other action, including attacks.
• The necessary condition for performing an action stealthily is that you have Concealment or Cover. That's all.
• If you succeed in your stealth roll against a target, you have Combat Advantage (they can't see you, or are unaware of you).

Attacking from behind cover or from inside concealment (even a 1 square pillar or bush) means that the target is unable to effectively observe you attacking, and cannot adequately defend against or anticipate those attacks.

The target may be 100% certain of the square you are in, and may have every intention of coming to get you, but this doesn't prevent you from using that cover or concealment to continue to gain an advantage over the target. If you can pop out momentarily from surprise angles, you have Combat Advantage over them.

Consider it this way: a rogue and fighter can cooperate in melee so that both always have Combat Advantage from flanking.

It's thus not overpowering for ranged attackers with stealth ability to have a probability (stealth DC) of gaining CA each round. It requires making use of terrain, positioning so that they have cover, and dealing with the consequences of casters tossing fireballs at the bushes or angry soldiers running for their cover position.

 

[AsmodeusDM]

Also please keep in mind that there is nothing that a person can do (well 99% of the time) to prevent them from granting combat advantage whilst being flanked.

A fair number of monsters in the game (not all but certainly a good chunk) actually have pretty decent perception scores. So against these guys it's probably a 50/50 shot to gain Stealth and then Combat Advantage. That's the "price" you pay for being far away and behind cover/concealment instead of up-close and personal with the guy you are fighting.

Also if someone uses Stealth to hide, and you know where they went, then it's simple enough to walk around the cover and establish unbroken LOS to the target and then hit them.