Stopping the "extended rest after every encounter"

[deleteme123456]

Quick question: What class was the character who was down to half of their healing surges playing and exactly how many surges did they have left?

Good question. I think it was either the Cleric or Warlord, both of whom got beaten up badly, and they'd have 4 left from the 8 they started with. The Cleric actually went to -8 at one point so it's probably him. The team didn't do a good job of protecting him (he also didn't help by getting closer than he needed)... the monsters saw an opening, a dragonshield came up to his front side and whacked him, and the Kobold Skirmisher came in behind and flanked him, for a large attack that put him under.

 

[katahn]

I really like the idea of houseruling the chances of getting dailies back based on how many encounters the group had. Another good idea was the addition of bonus experience for completing time-sensitive objectives. The former removes the incentive to recreate the 3e "5 minute workday" and the latter rewards them for being bold.

I was already thinking of instituting something like the first idea in my game. After each encounter there would be a 1 in 6 chance for each used daily power to refresh and become available again and a 3 in 6 chance for them to regain a spent action point. Both of these rolls would require that the group has taken an extended rest sometime in the prior 24 hours though.

The idea is to make it clear to the players that the "5 minute workday" is gone and they won't be rewarded for it; then to add rewards when they are daring and take chances.

 

[bardolph]

I really like the idea of houseruling the chances of getting dailies back based on how many encounters the group had. Another good idea was the addition of bonus experience for completing time-sensitive objectives. The former removes the incentive to recreate the 3e "5 minute workday" and the latter rewards them for being bold.

I was already thinking of instituting something like the first idea in my game. After each encounter there would be a 1 in 6 chance for each used daily power to refresh and become available again and a 3 in 6 chance for them to regain a spent action point. Both of these rolls would require that the group has taken an extended rest sometime in the prior 24 hours though.

The idea is to make it clear to the players that the "5 minute workday" is gone and they won't be rewarded for it; then to add rewards when they are daring and take chances.

Of course it's up to you, but the mechanical solution seems a bit harsh to me. I think it's better to use reward incentives for the behavior you wish to reward. Offer a bonus of extra XP and treasure when they complete the adventure in a short period of time. That way, they have an interesting choice to make: do we press on for greater glory, or take it slow and steady for a smaller reward?

 

[katahn]

Of course it's up to you, but the mechanical solution seems a bit harsh to me. I think it's better to use reward incentives for the behavior you wish to reward. Offer a bonus of extra XP and treasure when they complete the adventure in a short period of time. That way, they have an interesting choice to make: do we press on for greater glory, or take it slow and steady for a smaller reward?

Actually I was looking at my rule variation as being more generous by allowing the possibility of being able to use a daily more often at the cost of perhaps not getting it refreshed overnight. Although in fairness it is honestly only a possibility I've been chewing over in my mind.

I do agree the best approach is to hand out rewards when your players do things "appropriately" and then give them nothing when they don't. However, if the players are so absolutely married to the 5 minute workday that they won't try the riskier path for better rewards then some sort of corrective response is needed.

The spirit of the game is "3-4 encounters then an extended rest gets dailies recharged" and if the players are abusing the spirit by gaming the RAW then a DM correction of some kind is needed. Maybe talking to the players OOCly will work, maybe letting them know they'll get XP bonuses will work, or maybe temporarily nerfing how an extended rest returns dailies will work.

 

[wrshamilton]

First encounter of the day is 80% xp, second is 100%, anything after is 120%? Numbers might need rejiggering, but I'd imagine something like that, while being a little bit of a sledgehammer, might encourage the players towards bravery without derailing them totally if they opt for caution.

 

[deleteme123456]

First encounter of the day is 80% xp, second is 100%, anything after is 120%? Numbers might need rejiggering, but I'd imagine something like that, while being a little bit of a sledgehammer, might encourage the players towards bravery without derailing them totally if they opt for caution.

Works better if all your encounters are roughly the same XP value. If XP value for 1 & 3 are vastly different, you'll wind up getting out of sync pretty fast. "Better make sure we have two easy encounters before that boss so we can get extra XP from him!"

 

[pogminky]

Make them roleplay the extended rest and the time between - no forward time.

 

[Tervin]

When writing and preparing for 4E adventures I have felt a problem that is almost the opposite. I am not worried that my players will want to take too many rests. The stories we play out tend to be paced so that we very seldom have several combat encounters in a row, but when they are the players are fine with following the intentions of the story and being heroic enough to press on.

The problem I am working with is planning for about half the encounters being combat in a game that is created so that you can easily fit in four fights in a day... the campaign easily turns silly with the speed the characters are gaining levels if you look at in game time. If you also consider that we normally play what I think will be translated into 2-3 encounter sessions at a time, playing through a single in game day would take about 3 sessions.

What my solution is? Have parts of the campaign that will be combat focused with 4-6 encounters a day, and where there will be little chance to stop for extended rests in the middle. (For example - how do you do that while the enemy invades your home with wave after wave of enemies?) Other parts will be mostly investigation, social encounters etc, with an occasional combat to spice it up. To make it fair, and to make all encounters exciting enough I will use different guidelines for how hard an encounter should be for those different parts of the campaign.

Btw... listen to Starfox. I haven't seen him play D&D for at least 15 years but he was good enough back then that I still remember his playstyle. (Crystal Dagger Tournament is a keyword for what I am talking about. )

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You might also want to check out post #17 in this similar thread.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=232664&page=2

 

[deleteme123456]

Make them roleplay the extended rest and the time between - no forward time.

Is that punishment for me or them? "We pick our noses (stealthily) for 12 hours."