Stopping the "extended rest after every encounter"

[Harr]

First encounter of the day is 80% xp, second is 100%, anything after is 120%? Numbers might need rejiggering, but I'd imagine something like that, while being a little bit of a sledgehammer, might encourage the players towards bravery without derailing them totally if they opt for caution.

It's worked out perfectly for me. I do 80%, 90%, 100%, 110%, 120% and so on. It's put my players into the exact frame of mind I wanted them to be in (and that I know is fun for them, personally): engaged in the situation, planning their resource consumption, seriously weighing both the mechanical and narrative benefits of resting now versus resting later.

They usually if they play it right can go for 6-8 encounters before getting 'tapped out', unless I decide to really bring out the 'boss' monsters and pound them, which I like to do some sessions, then they can go for 3 or 4 at the most.

"Better make sure we have two easy encounters before that boss so we can get extra XP from him!"

This is called "having players who are engaged in the game". It's a good thing.

Even if this were a real situation that arises from actual play (it's clearly imaginary, and from real experience I can tell you: it does not) the fact that the players are actively considering, discussing and planning how to proceed to get the result they want (as opposed to zoning out and not even bothering) is a big flag that you're doing something right.

One of the lessons 4e is trying to teach us is that there is no shame in admitting and focusing on what you really find fun. But that's a different thing for every group.

 

[deleteme123456]

You haven't met my group. Powergamers and metagamers (well, OK, not all of them, but enough). Maybe I'll try that with a "Elite and Solo monsters are always worth 100%" clause.

 

[katahn]

The progressive xp system works nicely. Another variant would be to just allocate a bonus for every encounter the group beats before taking a daily rest after the third encounter.

Encounters 1-3: No bonus
Encounter 4+: (Encounter # - 3) * (average party level) * 50 each.

A 1st level group gets +50xp each for the 4th encounter (above and beyond), +100xp each for the 5th, +150xp each for the 6th, etc. A 5th level group gets +250xp each for the 4th encounter, +500xp each for the 5th encounter, +750xp each for the 6th, etc.

Then, just tell the group about this bonus experience system and let them decide if they want to play it safe or if they want to get that bonus.

 

[Leatherhead]

Good question. I think it was either the Cleric or Warlord, both of whom got beaten up badly, and they'd have 4 left from the 8 they started with. The Cleric actually went to -8 at one point so it's probably him. The team didn't do a good job of protecting him (he also didn't help by getting closer than he needed)... the monsters saw an opening, a dragonshield came up to his front side and whacked him, and the Kobold Skirmisher came in behind and flanked him, for a large attack that put him under.

Yeah, after a fight like that I would want to rest too.

 

[deleteme123456]

Yeah, after a fight like that I would want to rest too.

I know the Warlock (who is built like a defender, wearing plate and having 20 CON) and Wizard have full HS's, and I think the Rogue used one. The Fighter wasn't there that day (which didn't help). As I recall, only the Wizard burned a daily. So I think they ought to have at least 2 more encounters in them that day. I might spot anyone who used 3+ in that encounter a free HS to account for the lack of a defender during the fight, and see if that's enough to get them to keep going. I've given the metagamers the choice: they can play like heroes and keep going through encounters until they really have to stop, or I can use something in the DM's bag-o-tricks to stop them from taking extended rests. I'd probably use the XP system.

 

[kristov]

in my game - i actually make time matter - so I started up a series of "Warnings" that something bad was going to happen soon - as long as the players work towards solving the module in a reasonably quick timeframe - ill let things play out normally.

if my players started taking 8 hours breaks after every encounter they would pretty much loose the module - id have the rift open and swarm the town with undead and kill everyone including the pc's.

at least that way they would take me seriously as a dm in the future

 

[bardolph]

I do agree the best approach is to hand out rewards when your players do things "appropriately" and then give them nothing when they don't. However, if the players are so absolutely married to the 5 minute workday that they won't try the riskier path for better rewards then some sort of corrective response is needed.

I think it depends a lot on how the game world is structured. If the world is static, then the players are right for wanting to take their time and proceed cautiously. If the world is more dynamic, then sometimes the urgency of the moment overrides the convenience of resting.

As a DM, you need to be willing to improvise. Sometimes by a lot.

For example, if you are running a game where evil cultists are trying to free some kind of horrible evil, give the players some warnings that the cultists are getting close to their goal, and if the PCs still drag their feet, LET THE CULTISTS SUCCEED. An army of undead and devils stream out of the rift and burns all nearby villages to the ground. The PCs would presumably have to high-tail it out of there, and fast!

Certainly, if they insist on the "5-minute workday" while armies of evildoers ravage the land, they could be in some serious trouble. Hit them while they sleep. Overrun their defenses. Let them wake up in a chain gang. The next adventure will be how they plan their escape.

There's all sorts of wonderful and dreadful places you can take your campaign. The trick is to create a sense of urgency, then DELIVER on it if they don't take the hint!

 

[Leatherhead]

I know the Warlock (who is built like a defender, wearing plate and having 20 CON) and Wizard have full HS's, and I think the Rogue used one. The Fighter wasn't there that day (which didn't help). As I recall, only the Wizard burned a daily. So I think they ought to have at least 2 more encounters in them that day. I might spot anyone who used 3+ in that encounter a free HS to account for the lack of a defender during the fight, and see if that's enough to get them to keep going. I've given the metagamers the choice: they can play like heroes and keep going through encounters until they really have to stop, or I can use something in the DM's bag-o-tricks to stop them from taking extended rests. I'd probably use the XP system.

Well the problem with this is the party isn't limited to the person with the most resources left for the day, but the person with the least. Are you honestly going to let up on the partly leader to attack other members of the party just because the leader already got beat up that day? I know I wouldn't. I do agree they had one more fight in them, but that one last fight of the day isn't something you go looking for, it is supposed to be held in reserve just in case you get attacked in the middle of the night.

And to be honest, metagaming isn't resting because one of the party got the tar beat out of them in the last fight. Metagaming is pressing on because mechanically speaking you should be able to handle more fights that day.

 

[Entropi]

Here is my suggestion on how to motivate players not to do the 'rest every encounter' thing...

1. Action points reset to 0 every day.

2. Action points are accrued at milestones normally (ie - every 2 encounters) and can be used normally.

3. At the end of each day, unused action point are worth XP. I haven't given much thought to the number of XP - maybe 50 XP per 1 AP?

whaddyathink?

 

[Starfox]

For example, if you are running a game where evil cultists are trying to free some kind of horrible evil, give the players some warnings that the cultists are getting close to their goal, and if the PCs still drag their feet, LET THE CULTISTS SUCCEED. ...

This is good advice - as long as you are flexible with what "if the PCs still drag their feet" means. Different players like different pacing and levels of security. Know what type of players you have and what they want.

In a high-treat game, the natural impulse of any role-player or storyteller is to be careful in order to preserve his/her character. Having a cherished character die on you is a great blow. For a min/maxing tactician, not so much - its just a chance to try out a new build.