Stopping the "extended rest after every encounter"

[generalhenry]

it's once every 12 hours

 

[shadewest]

Nah, it's a table problem. The DM is even more at fault than the players when it happens.



From a mechanics stand point, it's not a problem.


It's an RP problem.

I'll concede that. You clarified what I was trying to say.

 

[bardolph]

The problem with the story having consequences is that a) it requires a lot more work on the DM beyond just taking the prepublished campaign and running it (now if you're writing your own anyway this might be less problematic) and b) it has to have the potential to result in something really bad that does punish the characters...

Well, here it becomes a game of "chicken" between the DM and the players. It seems that the players know that you aren't prepared to go off-script, and are exploiting the situation.

like a GAME OVER to use KOTS if the bad guys have enough time to complete whatever they're trying to do (without giving spoilers in case anyone is playing as a PC). And then what? I suppose we can apply RetCon (Retroactive Continuity) and say "well, that's what WOULD have happened had you rested. Instead..." although what point do you go back to? Or do you simply say, well, you lost that campaign, let's try another, and this time try to actually do your jobs?

...more like GAME START, if you ask me! Having the cultists complete their task is a wealth of plot hooks. Besides, there's no reason why the DM and characters couldn't invent some sort of "second chance" quest to undo the work of the cultists.

I would guess that, once H2 comes out, it won't be hard to tweak it into a "what if the cultists from H1 won" scenario.

I don't want to drive my players off, but I don't want them to be cheesing through this either. If you know up-front that you will have all your healing surges, daily powers, and action points available for your first (only) battle of the day, it gives different tactics and the encounters will be easier. The wizard goes to hide in a corner and uses flaming sphere, sacrificing a standard action as needed to stay within range if the bad guys don't engage... that's just one example.

If the DM responds to PC cheese with DM cheese (like rules changes to force certain behavior), that can be a big turn-off as well. One of the big appeals of an RPG is the freedom of choice. Another big appeal is the ability to see the consequences of those choices.

plot doesn't have to be a stick.

It's not too hard to use it carrot style.

Definitely. Best is a combination of sticks and carrots.

 

[MonkeyMage]

it's once every 12 hours

So is that; active 12 rest 6, active 12, rest 6; or active 6, rest 6, active 6, rest 6?

 

[generalhenry]

12-6-12-6

an 18 hour cycle minimum

 

[MonkeyMage]

Well thats not so bad, thats at most 4 rests in a 3 day period. Anything more than that and they are lolyygagging for no reason. So my solution stands, with the slight adjust to rule 3, but it's not really an issue unless your players like to sit around for no reason, or if you are letting them break the rules. Since you mentioned they are powergamers, I'd guess the latter is more the issue.

 

[generalhenry]

The easier fix is of course attacking them in their sleep.

Which requires creating encounters that aren't in the adventure.

But really it's not very hard.


That and creepy noises while they rest

 

[Deodanth]

In 3E the wizard could cast multiple spells at first level and could plink away with his crossbow after that.

But even in 2E when the wizard was done after a single spell the group would go on.

Why? because the world was alive.

Yeah I remember playing the magic-user who basically became a glorified torch holder after he cast his Sleep and MM. Just think, party behavior would have been a lot different in 2e if the fighters and thieves had used up their best attacks as well after 1 or 2 encounters. This is something of a new twist on an old problem.

 

[Goblyns Hoard]

I will only endorse one solution to this - in-game consequences.

OK it might be difficult to ambush them in the city - just repeat the ambush. Unlike a computer game you can replenish the 'outer level guards' with new ones. Make it clear that they're not actually getting anywhere with their approach.

Alternatively have the rewards commensurate on results, have another group of heroes come along and start getting results, stealing loot and quest-offers out from underneath their noses, move the plot forward and have the army of orc barbarians/necromancer/ancient wyrm invade/summon the undead abomination/destroy the town your so-called heroes are taking daily refuge in, anything you can think of.

But changing the rules to pander to this behaviour is not what D&D should be about.

 

[deleteme123456]

Hitting them with extra encounters will just discourage them. They'll be even more drained and in less condition to fight on. I considered it, and even wrote in my plot outline "cumulative 10% additional chance of repeating ambush encounter every time they leave the city until they wipe out the lair", but I don't think that would actually accomplish what I'm trying to do. Plus it takes TIME. For a group that meets only every 2 weeks for 4-5 hours, and with a combat encounter taking at least 1 hour, then we're going to be 25% or more behind schedule. I would like to complete the campaign before 2011. (Really, before 2009 should be doable.)