D&D 5E STR and DEX fighter stupid?

[Sacrosanct]

And, pray tell, what is the first sentence of this thread? Could it be by any chance "Is playing a fighter with STR as a primary stat and DEX as a secondary stupid?"

I think my answer was 100% on topic, 100% on the "Theme and archetype" that you want and I don't see why you would have to disagree with it. That's what ticked me off.

Two things. First, "Is playing a a fighter with a STR as primary and DEX as secondary stupid?" does not equal "Basic fighters need to have these stats, get GWM, and go for STR20." As many people have replied, the answer to that question was either "depends on what you want" or "no". *Not* "Here's the way basic fighters should be set up", which wasn't even really an answer to his question.

Secondly, as I already mentioned upthread, ENWorld has a forum dedicated to optimizing. If the OP or yourself wants to talk about optimizing, do it there. Any discussion here is under the assumption that the OP is NOT looking for an optimized character, and that's how people will respond to the question.

Sorry that people disagreeing with your worldview about how the game should be played ticks you off.

 

[77IM]

Folks, there are 3 questions being discussed here.

First, are Str+Dex fighters underpowered compared to Str-only fighters and Dex-only fighters? I think that's an interesting question, because it reveals nuances of the system you may not have considered. (For the record, I definitely think the Str+Dex fighter is noticeably weaker, for reasons stated upthread. It's not unplayable; it's just that diversifying between Str and Dex is not rewarded the way specializing is.)

Second, should the system make some character builds less powerful than others? Third, should that bother you or should you ignore it? Those are ancient, time-worn philosophical questions that I find boring, because they are a matter of pure play preference. It's usually pretty pointless to try to convince someone to change their preference, so maybe we could skip that part of the debate?

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[UngeheuerLich]

(For the record, I definitely think the Str+Dex fighter is noticeably weaker, for reasons stated upthread. It's not unplayable; it's just that diversifying between Str and Dex is not rewarded the way specializing is.)

This is only in your mind. I have calculated everything, and regarded all possible scenarios, and on average, the dex 14 fighter does more damage than the dex 8 fighter.

 

[krakistophales]

Alright, I guess let me rephrase:

From an optimization standpoint, regardless of "character concept", is playing a fighter with 16 STR/16 CON/14 DEX starting off stupid? Just to clarify further, feats are allowed, which is how I derive these starting numbers with a variant human, and the priority of getting stats to 20 is going to be STR first, then CON, and either DEX, in this example, would end up being 14 or 16 at level 20.

Given THIS example, what is more optimized? DEX or WIS as the third stat?

Also, can you explain these calculations and how you arrived at the above mentioned conclusion?

 

[Sacrosanct]

Perhaps you should post your question here, in the optimization forum. This forum is for general 5e topics, not CharOp.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Alright, I guess let me rephrase:

From an optimization standpoint, regardless of "character concept", is playing a fighter with 16 STR/16 CON/14 DEX starting off stupid? Just to clarify further, feats are allowed, which is how I derive these starting numbers with a variant human, and the priority of getting stats to 20 is going to be STR first, then CON, and either DEX, in this example, would end up being 14 or 16 at level 20.

Given THIS example, what is more optimized? DEX or WIS as the third stat?

Also, can you explain these calculations and how you arrived at the above mentioned conclusion?

It wasn´t too serious.

Don´t worry about stats too much. Dex 14 is all you need if you want a secondary weapon and the option to switch into medium armor if stealth is more important than AC.
Raising Con and Wis is probably no bad Idea. If you want to raise con and wis and dex, you may start out as standard human which lets you get mediocre Int and Cha and 16Str, 14Con, 14Dex and 14Wis easily. With 3 points left, which will give you Cha 10 and Int 11.

A Variant human can have 16 Str (Heavy armor mastery), 14 Con, 14 Wis, 14 Dex and only 9 and 8 left for Cha and Int.
With 16/16/14 you only have 4 points left which will igve you 2 tens and an 8. I would strongly advise against that spread, as you will have a big hole in your defenses for a little more hp and a very little better con safe.

If you want me to decide Wis or Dex, I would take Wis and accept, that I will never sneak up at anything. Wisdom 8 is dangerously low.

 

[bid]

Alright, I guess let me rephrase:

From an optimization standpoint, regardless of "character concept", is playing a fighter with 16 STR/16 CON/14 DEX starting off stupid? Just to clarify further, feats are allowed, which is how I derive these starting numbers with a variant human, and the priority of getting stats to 20 is going to be STR first, then CON, and either DEX, in this example, would end up being 14 or 16 at level 20.

Given THIS example, what is more optimized? DEX or WIS as the third stat?

Also, can you explain these calculations and how you arrived at the above mentioned conclusion?

The second 16 has a heavy cost.

Would you rather start 16 14 14 12 10 8 or 16 16 14 10 8 8 (after variant human racial)?

There is life outside of combat, if you gimp your mental stat you become a 1-dimensional cardboard hero.

Don't mind that inconsistent holier-than-thou old geezer, it's not his lawn anyway.


EDIT: revisiting UL plan and starting 15 14 14 13 11 8 (racial) with a Str+1 feat and resilient later on is also interesting.

 

[Umbran]

Don't mind that inconsistent holier-than-thou old geezer, it's not his lawn anyway.

Next time, do it without the insults, please and thank you.

 

[Tanaka Chris]

Well, not sure if anyone has addressed it, but if you are already a STR based fighter, and Initiative is important, why not use that ASI on the Alert Feat?
As others mentioned a +1 on the other DEX checks is not going to make or break your character, and you won't be getting any benefits to AC without taking yet another feat.

Or go the DEX fighter AND take the Alert Feat anyway
Nova on the Boss before he finishes his evil speech ---> Cooler than a Silence spell being casted on him