Strength.. Is it really the best statistic?

[BiggusGeekus]

Well, Charisma (for example) is useful if you are playing a bard, cleric, monk, sorceror, or paladin, or one of the psi classes. But all those classes can get some use out of strength ... encumberance if nothing else.

I think STR and DEX are useful, but not to the degree it is presented in the DMG. The DMG implies that a race with a +4 CHA would be balanced if that race had a -2 STR and I think that's insane.

 

[your_mother]

Orcs and Strength

It's obvious: if Strength were not the best stat, Orcs and Half-Orcs wouldn't have the bonus. Therefore, because Half-Orcs and Orcs have such a great bonus to Strength, it is the best stat.

 

[graydoom]

Re: Orcs and Strength

It's obvious: if Strength were not the best stat, Orcs and Half-Orcs wouldn't have the bonus. Therefore, because Half-Orcs and Orcs have such a great bonus to Strength, it is the best stat.

Nice logic there .

Myself, I think strength and dexterity are both the "best" stat. Everybody can use some of each. Con is almost as good, because everyone benefits from extra HP, it's just that con does so little else.

Int, wis, and cha usually aren't all that useful unless you are playing a spellcaster with one of them as the prime ability or are playing a class with a special ability linked to one.

I think "best" stat is the stat that the most characters can get the most benefit out of. That's why I think str and dex are the "best" stats, because every character can get some use out of them, while many characters don't really lose anything by not having, say, a good cha score.

 

[Zerovoid]

I think the 3E designers did a better job of balancing then they realize, sure charisma is a dump stat for many of the classes, but the Sorcerer I'm playing would gladly take a -2 to Strength for a +2 to Charisma and I think most wizards would make the same trade for a bump to their Intelligence.

In other words which stat is the most powerful really depends on which class you're playing.

I think this is why STR is the most powerful. When balancing the races, they need to be balanced for the most powerful race/class combination that they can be used for. -2 Int and -2 Cha don't look like too much to pay for +2 Str when you are a Barbarian. In a point buy campaign, one player made a half orc barbarian whose stats were something like 20, 10, 12, 6, 8, 6, and he tore through everything. I thought he was crazy to have stats like, especially with the diminishing returns on the 20, but when everyone else has 14 or 16, that 20 sure seemed impressive.

So, although I agree that half orc is weak in some sort of average, race neutral sense, lessening the penalties would make some characters far to powerful. If you don't like them, don't play a half orc.

 

[Lazybones]

I don't know... I use the point buy method exclusively, and while you can slant stats like the half-orc barbarian mentioned, creating a real combat tyro on paper, any DM worth his salt's going to have a low level mage or cleric with a charm or hold spell that can take out that super-fighter pretty easily. Any fighter who pumps up str/dex/con is going to have a pretty bad will save...

I think that's the beauty of the system, really, demanding balance and teamwork within a group. As some of the other posts on this board have noted, groups that focus too much on one stat or one class are going to have pretty glaring weaknesses in the average adventure context.

 

[Aethelstan]

?..

 

[Psychic Warrior]

I was just considering the benefits and advantages each statistic has to offer, and I started to wonder why Strength is considered so important that races who get a bonus to Strength have to take two negative modifiers to make up for this.

I can understand that Strength is very important to a melee fighter, and controls many things, but is it really that much better than Dexterity? Dexterity controls your bonus to AC, your initiative, your Reflex save, several valuable skills and your to hit modifier with ranged weapons. I'd say Dexterity is at least equal to Strength.

Another thing that bothers me is Halflings and Gnomes, despite suffering a penalty to Strength, do not gain additional bonuses. Why do you have to have double penalties when gaining a bonus to Strength, when you do not have to have double bonuses when suffering a penalty?

I think that Half-Orcs, Wood Elves and so on should either have the extra penalty removed, or Halflings, Gnomes and so on should have a bonus added. Perhaps I'm wrong, however, and I'm open to other points of view, which is why I posted this here instead of in the House Rules forum.

Is Strength really better? If so, how? And should the races with Strength bonuses and penalties be changed? Like I said, I would like to hear other peoples opinions, so feel free to reply.

WHile I don't think Strength is the best stat one thing to keep in mind is that Halflings & Gnomes also have the benefit of small size giving them a +1 on nearly everything they do in combat. In addition they get a physical stat bonus to compensate. I think they are pretty balanced overall. The 1/2 Orc gets a physcial bonus and a mental penalty - they are optimized for combat and really don't fit the mold of sorcerer or wizard (although I have seen many played that way). Not every race is going to be good at everything b ut every race is always good at something.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I would rate Strength as possibly the worst stat-and definitely in the bottom half. Dex applies to many more things, including not only many attack rolls but to AC and ref saves and init and many useful skills. Int grants skill points, so the benefit of Int goes up with level (unlike most stats), and skill points can be used for all kinds of things. Con keeps you alive, and like Int, the benefit of a good con gets better with levels.

Now Str might come into play. Wis is for will saves and perception skills. Both pretty darn important. And that whole divine magic thing. Of course Cha is only really useful for casters who have it as a casting stat. Str is maybe in line with Wis and probably better than Cha, but doesn't even come close to the others, IMO.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I think that in a lot of cases, int is undervalued as a stat. Not only does it give a significant bonus to a lot of skills, but it's also the decider for how many skills you can have.

Recently I've made not one, but two characters that have racial int penalties, but are in skill-using classes. I find that the pain of having a low int in such a class is far, far more than the pain of having a low strength in a fighter class. Further, skills are a hard, mechanical benefit of high int - low int fighters, barbarians, clerics, druids, sorcerors and paladins are all effectively losing access to class abilities. Yet it seems every physical stat vs int race is also penalised another mental stat to make up the balance.

 

[spigadang]

I see the stats going like this. Con, int, dex, wis, str, cha. But all the stats are important. I see it like this. Con is the best over all beacuse you can always use the extra hitpoints. At 20 lvl that is 20 extra hp but with dex at 20th lvl that is only a plus 1 to your ac. Con and dex helps your Saves and that always is helpful. Int gives you more skills and skills is life! What would you rather have at 10th or higher, 10 extra skill points or a plus 1 to ac And saves? I take the SP. Str to me is SO ove . What are the skills based on str? swim jump haha who takes those to real high ranks other then fighter for that is all he can do. Str helps to hit and damage but of all the stats that is the easiest to gane from magic items and feats. Wis beats outs str for it improves saves, and all those who have had a fighter type miss a save by one or too and it is out of the combact for the time or even turns on your mage, would say more save the better. Also it helps with many of the most important skills that all members in a party should have. Char only loses out beacuse you have one person that is the face and you can make it out great.