Asurya said:
quote Arkhandus: replacing the spells with maneuvers that could be used in Shapeshift forms is likely to swing the druid into more overpowered territory than normal
err... are you actually saying that a {Shapeshift + Maneuvers} Druid is SUPERIOR to a PHb Druid???
Maybe combining maneuvers and shift can lead to power issues, I don't know. But keep in mind that shapes only give you Str boost (more or less), so basically you are saying that a Bull Strengthed Warblade is overpowered.
If this is really an issue, you can state that maneuvers cannot be initiated while shifted. As Nifft said, the whole point of shapeshift is to switch back and forth between human and animal shape.
@HeavenShallBurn: so you have yet to see someone at your table begin to use all the MM books... all of a sudden, dinausors and naturally invisible plant creature will start ruining your day (not even speaking about Natural spell cheese: "wait... the T-Rex is CASTING?!" ÔÔ *cries in disbelief*)
Um, no. Don't twist what I say to mean different things and be wildly exaggerated.
Maneuvers and stances would synergize well with the Shapeshift, and with Wild Shape too in some cases. They mesh better than Shapeshift + Spellcasting, since the spellcasting would have to be done only when the druid returns to normal form.
I never said it's a huge difference, I'm only pointing out that it synergizes better. Some of the maneuvers work well with the Shapeshift benefits or the druid's normal class features. I never said it's better than spellcasting, but shapeshift + maneuvers are a more efficient combo.
You don't generally need to change forms very often with Shapeshift (in any given encounter), because each form is focused on a particular role (like aerial combat, or fighting multiple foes, etc.). So you would usually have plenty of Swift/Immediate actions free for use with maneuvers and stances.
Saying that maneuvers couldn't be initiated while Shapeshifted would be stupid and completely defeat the point of the houserule. That would be a tremendous nerfing to the druid, in so many ways. I would never suggest such a godawful idiotic thing.
A high-level druid may wreak some havoc as a Tyrannosaurus Rex with Greater Magic Weapon and Barkskin and such, but a high-level druid with Strike of Perfect Clarity, Feral Deathblow, Mountain Tombstone Strike, Time Stands Still, or Strike of Righteous Vitality
might do even worse, and will still be a terror on the battlefield like any other high-level druid. The shapeshifted druid with maneuvers and stances might be even harder to hurt and be doing much more damage (or fully healing themselves with SoRV) every 2-3 rounds, in every single fight.
Compared to a normal martial adept with such maneuvers, the druid will have some nice advantages from their Shapeshift or Wild Shape. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying it's a patently broken and stupid idea.
I have no problem with replacing the druid's spellcasting with maneuvers. I'd just prefer them with Wild Shape than with Shapeshift, as I think it might be a slightly less efficient/potent combination. DRUIDS ARE BROKEN AS-IS. There are only slight degrees of more or less broken for a druid, and I'd rather err on the side of what I
think would be slightly-less. I dunno.
Also, regarding your response to HeavenShallBurn: Druids can't become plants with Wild Shape until 12th-level. They don't get sneak attack (and multiclass druid/rogues still don't have a ton of sneak attack).
So Phantom Fungi are not an uber-awesome wild shape to use, especially with how Invisibility works in 3.5 and how even the most pathetic spellcasters the party is likely to run into at that point will be able to cast See Invisibility or Glitterdust without even wasting a decent spell slot (or they might just Quicken it with a high slot, for the sake of being able to nuke the Druid-as-Phantom-Fungus with their next-best slot). Sure, they're useful, but the form of a simple rat is also useful for scouting, as is the form of an eagle or an air elemental or whatever.
Druids can't become tyrannosaurs until 18th-level, because tyrannosaurs have 18 hit dice. By that point who cares if it's a spellcasting tyrannosaurus? It's still an oversized lizard that can be held off with a summoned earth elemental or whatever; can't cast spells very well when grappled and getting damaged (though the druid-as-t-rex shouldn't have too much trouble breaking free of the grapple or resisting it, it will still be a time-wasting distraction).
And a spellcasting tyrannosaurus druid is pretty effectively neutralized by an Antimagic Field. Clerics can get it as a 6th-level spell with the Magic domain and should be reasonably on-par with the druid for the grapple attempts. Except the cleric may have better Strength, since they didn't likely treat it as a dump stat like the wild-shaping druid. Heck, by 18th-level, the druid can expect to face the occasional cleric who can cast Antimagic Field as a normal 8th-level spell rather than a 6th-level domain spell, so the chances of running into it are higher.
Still, tyrannosaurs are frickin' cool.
