substitution feature for turn undead for Cleric with low Charisma.

[calighis]

It's my fault, I insisted on playing a mongrel folk Cleric. So the minus 4 to my Char is kinda painful. Meanwhile, I am wondering if there is a decent substitution for turn undead that is not charisma based.

 

[aboyd]

I like this list of cleric feats:

http://www.habololy.com/Feats/Divine Feats.htm

Most people like Divine Metamagic, which uses a turn attempt to allow you to enhance a spell with metamagic.

I personally like Divine Spell Power because it increases your caster level so your spells are more difficult to save against. I also like Divine Fortune, which allows you to expend a turn attempt in order to gain +4 to a saving throw.

 

[Runestar]

I think UA should have a variant which lets you swap out turn undead for aura of courage and smite. Fear immunity is always nice, I guess.

 

[coriolis]

I personally like Divine Spell Power because it increases your caster level so your spells are more difficult to save against.

While caster level will affect many things, it won't increase your spell's DC.

As for Divine Metamagic, remember that the prerequisites were officially amended to include the metamagic feat you want to reproduce (IOW, you need to take Quicken Spell separately before you can use Divine Metamagic to power it).

To calighis: I sympathize with your choices in character creation. My current character is a human cleric who kept his Charisma 10 for a long part of his career for role-playing reasons

 

[aboyd]

While caster level will affect many things, it won't increase your spell's DC.

Hmm. You're right. That helps with spell resistance.

It's Heighten Spell that adds to the DC. Thanks.

 

[sukael]

Extended Spell, Persistent Spell, then Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) is a popular feat chain for clerics. Burn most of your turning uses to cast divine power (BAB = your HD) with a duration of 24 hours.

EDIT: With a low Cha, though, you may need to take Extra Turning to get enough turning uses to make it work.

Or get a bunch of nightsticks from Libris Mortis.

 

[aboyd]

Doesn't Persistent Spell cause a spell to take up a slot 6 levels higher? So to cast a 3rd level spell as persistent, you'd need to be able to cast 9th level spells. Is that accurate?

If so, that's a very long-off goal for a game like the one I'm in. My cleric will never see past level 12 or 13.

But I'd be interested to hear how it could work. I admit that Metamagic is an area of 3.5 edition that I'm still struggling to learn.

 

[sukael]

Doesn't Persistent Spell cause a spell to take up a slot 6 levels higher? So to cast a 3rd level spell as persistent, you'd need to be able to cast 9th level spells. Is that accurate?

If so, that's a very long-off goal for a game like the one I'm in. My cleric will never see past level 12 or 13.

But I'd be interested to hear how it could work. I admit that Metamagic is an area of 3.5 edition that I'm still struggling to learn.

Divine Metamagic lets you burn turning uses instead of increasing the spell level.

So, if you can get six turning uses, you can use them all on a single Divine Metamagic'd spell and cast it in its normal level slot.

 

[aboyd]

Awesome. I had no idea. That is going to be major weaponry.

 

[sukael]

Awesome. I had no idea. That is going to be major weaponry.

Note that it requires any feats you're going to use Persistent with as prereqs (and I think you have to take Persistent once per feat, too) so it's a fairly large feat sink.

That said... Persistent Spell used with divine power is about all you need to make a cleric with the same kind of damage output as a dedicated melee combatant of that level.