D&D 5E Suggestion idea

[green_destiny]

Hi EN World,

I'd like to discuss effective/creative ideas for the Suggestion spell?

Also can this sentence work on an enemy that was cast a Suggestion spell
"Betray and kill your allies" ?

If it does, its better than crown of madness.

Thanks in advance!

 

[ExploderWizard]

I think the effectiveness of this attempt is highly situational. If the affected creature cannot easily dispatch its allies with little risk to itself I would rule that this is just as harmful as asking it to attack itself. If the target could easily stomp out its allies then it could work.

I see suggestion because of its longer more useful duration, to be better suited to non-combat purposes.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Based on spell description I would say no, there are no reason behind the suggestion, you need to make the suggestion sound reasonable to the character it is cast on. So, think hard about the target, know the target and then cast the spell.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Hi EN World,

I'd like to discuss effective/creative ideas for the Suggestion spell?

Also can this sentence work on an enemy that was cast a Suggestion spell
"Betray and kill your allies" ?

I'm afraid I don't have the brain for presenting creative uses of it at this moment, but I can definitely say that sentence doesn't look like it would work in most cases. From the description of Suggestion, emphasis added:

The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the course of action sound reasonable. Asking the creature to stab itself, throw itself onto a spear, immolate itself, or do some other obviously harmful act ends the spell.

Thus, we can clearly see two important criteria for the Suggestion to work:
1. The phrasing (but not necessarily the effect) of the action must sound reasonable to the target--not just to the caster.
2. The action itself cannot be obviously harmful to the target.

"Betray and kill your allies" is rather baldly unreasonable. They're my allies! My friends! Why on earth would I want to betray and kill them?! So that specific wording can't fly. Similarly, killing your allies...when people are currently running at you with sharp objects, battle cries, and spellcasting...sounds like a pretty obviously harmful action to take. Given that this spell only allows a single save, and the target must carry out the suggestion as long as the duration continues, it seems fairly clear to me that we should take a broad interpretation of what counts as "obviously harmful."

This is not to say that I think a suggestion like this would never work. For example, let's say you know your main enemy (a group of humans) has hired some dragonborn mercenaries to help them. Your advanced scout reports back to you that the humans have been treating the mercenaries like crap, despite the fact that they're well-trained and effective and have not been properly paid recently. When battle finally breaks out, your party gets lucky and manages to off the head of the human group, and hasn't actually killed any of the dragonborn yet.

Then, you, the Wizard, cast Suggestion on the dragonborn commander: "These humans have dishonored you and failed to uphold their contract: leaving them to their fate is *justice,* not betrayal." And she fails her save.

"Alright you soft-scales, we've had enough of this *crap*--the deal's off, and we're outta here."

It's certainly a type of betrayal, and it might require killing former "allies" to get out. However, it's not obviously harmful (in fact, it appears to be straightforwardly helpful) and it's phrased to appeal to perhaps-stereotypical dragonborn social values: justice, honor, pragmatism.

 

[Ciege102]

Late to the part but yeah. Often the reasonableness of the suggestion depends on the context or perception of the context. If you told the knight give me your money with suggestion attached it is not reasonable. If you are high charisma and tell the knight about how you are a valiant hero reduced to poverty and then cast suggestion give me your money it is not unreasonable. If you tell a crazy man to go punish those mortals it will go over better than if you tell a merchant to. Make it sound like something they want to do and they will do it

 

[MNblockhead]

I think convincing guards and other gatekeepers to let the party in, to decide they need not check their "papers" (credentials, invitations, etc.) a fairly standard and effective uses.

Convincing someone to express their love or admiration to someone at an inopportune time, but not a completely outrageous scenario, can be used for distraction or intrigue.

Creating jealousy to pit two people against one another.

Cause someone to mistrust an advisor.

Convince a strong neutral party to attack an antagonist.

Convince a town guard to stop someone who is chasing you.

Convince someone to 'lend' you a steed, money, or equipment.

Convince a merchant to cut you a deal.

Convince an NPC who is friendly towards you to do favors beyond what they would normally do, such as letting you stay at their place, giving you supplies, running errands, etc.