Suggestions on reworking a Dragon encounter.

[Oryan77]

I'm converting a 2e module for my 3.5e game. I don't have a lot of experience with 2e monsters, but apparently there is a size difference between a 2e Very Young Bronze Dragon and a 3.5 Very Young Bronze Dragon.

Normally, I wouldn't care and I would just use the 3.5 version. But in this scenario, the dragon's size is supposed to make a bit of an impression and cause the PCs to consider their next move based on this intimidating creature guarding a cavern.

A medium sized dragon chained to the floor and forced to guard this cavern just isn't intimidating enough. But, the PCs will be roughly 6-7th level by then and a large bronze dragon may be too high of a CR for them. Especially because dragons play as a lot higher CR than they actually are.

The color of the dragon isn't that important. I could settle on a large sized dragon, but I would prefer a huge.

Is there a large or huge sized dragon that could be a fair encounter for a 6-7th level party? Or are there any tricks to handicap a higher CR monster so it plays legitimately as a lower level CR? It could have a birth defect or something and completely work with the original story behind its presence there.

 

[Grogg of the North]

You could get a young adult white which would be large but a bit over CR. There are a few other colored dragons you can get at just over CR with large size.

A very young gold dragon would be large and of appropriate CR. A young red would work too.

Another way to go would be to purposefully put a small but powerful dragon. IIRC there's some sort of underdark dragon (Shadow?) that doesn't get bigger than medium I think. So the party could look at it and go "Oh, a medium dragon. What a level appropriate encounter." And then the dragon eats them.

 

[aglondier]

And then there is Enlarge. Enlarge Person is a 1st level spell, so lets say our mystery cavern owner has the 2nd or 3rd level Enlarge Monster spell handy to cast on his medium Dragon to make it a much scarier encounter...

 

[Empirate]

There's a CR 5 huge aberration in... one of the Forgotten Realms books? That looks very much like a strange, obese, dragon with tiny wings and three (3!) atrophied heads. Might be just the thing. It is just a little bit under-CR'ed, so if you add some HD or a template (Half-Dragon, maybe...?), you'll be just fine for a boss battle for 6th-7th level PCs.

 

[Asha'man]

Behold, the Ibrandlin!

It's a 2E Forgotten Realms monster, "created by evil clerics as guardian beasts". I found this 3.5 conversion using Google.

Ibrandlin
Gargantuan Dragon (Fire)
Hit Dice: 10d12+70 (135 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 20 ft., climb 20 ft.
AC: 17 (+11 natural, –4 size)
Attacks: Bite +18 melee, 4 claws +13 melee
Damage: Bite 4d6+12, claw 2d8+6
Face/Reach: 10 ft. by 30 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath weapon, pin
Special Qualities: Fire subtype, SR 20
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +7, Will +7
Abilities: Str 35, Dex 11, Con 24, Int 4, Wis 10, Cha 9
Skills: Climb +20, Jump +22, Listen +12, Search +7, Spot +12
Feats: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Power Attack
Climate/Terrain: Any land and underground
Organization: Solitary or family (2–8)
Challenge Rating: 5 (sic!)
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always lawful neutral
Advancement: 11–20 HD (Gargantuan)

Ibrandlins, also called “lurkers in darkness,” are dragonlike monsters created by clerics to guard sacred underground locations. They look like elongated, wingless red dragons, with gray-scaled bodies tinged with red on the back and belly.

Ibrandlins speak halting Draconic.

Combat

Ibrandlins attack with a lethal combination of raking claws and a vicious bite. They rear up on their tails in order to use all four claws at once while simultaneously either biting or using their fiery breath weapon. They follow the simple commands of the clerics of Ibrandul—“Attack!” and “Defend!” are common commands—but the beasts are also trained to “stand guard,” meaning that they will prevent a designated creature from moving.

Breath Weapon (Su): Once every 5 rounds, an ibrandlin can breathe a 30-foot cone of fire that deals 2d6 points of fire damage to every creature it touches. Affected characters who make a successful Reflex save (DC 21) take half damage. An ibrandlin can use its breath weapon and its claw attacks in the same round by using a full attack action. In this case, the creature forfeits its bite attack in favor of the breath weapon.

Pin (Ex): An ibrandlin can jump and land on opponents as a standard action, using its whole body to attack. A pin attack is effective only against Medium-size or smaller opponents. An ibrandlin can pin as many creatures as will fit under its body (a 10-ft.-by-30-ft. area). Creatures in the affected area must roll successful Reflex saves (DC 21) or be pinned under the ibrandlin. The ibrandlin can choose whether or not to deal damage. Creatures that lie still are simply pinned (treat as a grapple attack), while those that move or fight take 4d6 points of damage per round until they escape.

Fire Subtype (Ex): Fire immunity, double damage from cold except on a successful save.


Now, that thing is obviously not CR 5 (what were they thinking?) but I think it should be within the means of a 7th level party as a "boss fight", especially if it's chained in place and so can't move freely. Just make sure that the dungeon layout doesn't enable the PCs to attack it from complete safety, either.

 

[Storminator]

What if you used exactly the same stats but changed the size? That really only changes the number of PCs that can fit around the creature, which was probably not a limiting factor anyway.

PS

 

[Empirate]

What if you used exactly the same stats but changed the size? That really only changes the number of PCs that can fit around the creature, which was probably not a limiting factor anyway.

PS

Also changes a lot of other things, grapple check, attack roll, AC, natural attack base damage among them. If you just "blow it up", so to speak (i.e., don't change any stats whatsoever, even if it results in a monster that's not rules-acceptable), you might end with an encounter that feels kinda strange. Might. Might also just work, depending on what the PCs try...

 

[Storminator]

Also changes a lot of other things, grapple check, attack roll, AC, natural attack base damage among them. If you just "blow it up", so to speak (i.e., don't change any stats whatsoever, even if it results in a monster that's not rules-acceptable), you might end with an encounter that feels kinda strange. Might. Might also just work, depending on what the PCs try...

Yeah, I was thinking no changes to stats at all. If it was already a challenging encounter it should still be. But in 3e you have to evaluate everything for the specific group.

PS