Summoner Class Design Thread

[smootrk]

I am going to be using this thread as collaborative idea collection area to design a class that specializes in Summoning, designed along the same conceptual theme as the Beguiler, Warmage, and Dread Necromancer.

This first post will be a placeholder for the design work as we go.

Anyone and everyone should feel free to offer commentary and suggestions as the class is under construction.

 

[smootrk]

One consideration is for the spontaneous casting mechanism. using the beguiler as a baseline, the following analysis of their spell casting was crafted:
It would seem like the candidates that best fit the beguiler's spell list would be spells that have the following characteristics:
• enchantments of the charm or compulsion subschool that are not symbols and have negative impacts on the target(s)
• illusions in the glamer and figment subschool
• divinations that aid in scouting and prescience
• abjurations that negate harmful magical effects or help in avoiding detection
• transmutations that speed up the caster or allow access to hard-to-reach locations
• the occassional conjuration spell of the creation subschool that can cause confusion or miscommunication in foes (typically area effects); obscuring mist is a prime example of the kind of conjuration (creation) spells to allow.

Now a similar analysis of appropriate conjuration spell list should be crafted. My initial thoughts are that a spell list heavy in Summoning (but not damage inducing conjurations, as that is the realm of warmage/evokers), but also in Abjurations that offer protection against summoned creatures (like circle magics), and spells that offer command/control over summoned creatures. Dismissal spells are also probably in the realm of this kind of caster.

In addition I feel that the class would be rather weak (d4 HD) as they typically get others (summoned) to do their bidding. Some level based special abilities might be the ability to apply certain templates onto their summoned creatures. Also dismissal of creatures summoned by other mages could be imagined (possibly working like Dispel Magic with a narrow focus). I think Familiars would be ideal for this class, and special consideration for special familiar types such as outsiders could be factored in.

Thoughts so far??

 

[Morrius]

Even a d4 hit die isn't much of a handicap if you can always summon up something to do your fighting for you.

 

[smootrk]

Even a d4 hit die isn't much of a handicap if you can always summon up something to do your fighting for you.

True, although one must find balancing factors where one can. I rationalize this reduction in contrast to a 'fighting mage' like the Warmage. This might allow more skill points, or stronger special class abilities, or so forth.

Anyone have any thoughts on Ability Scores and which scores are tied to spellcasting? INT? CHA? combination of 2 (like the Archivist has)? I personally think CHA seems appropriate (and INT to a lesser degree) so as to command creatures or negotiate with outsiders.

Any input out there?

 

[Kunimatyu]

One mechanic I really liked was in the Demonbinder PrC from Tome of Magic. It let you have a powerful evil outsider companion, and you could spend a standard action making a truename check to get it to do something like attack or use a spell-like-ability. If you failed the check, the creature would just mock you and not do anything.

I'm curious if anyone would like to see a mechanic like this for a Summoner, as it allows them to have access to much more powerful creatures, since they're functionally replacing their own turn with the creature's.

EDIT: Alternatively, the Summoner seems like an excellent choice for a planar companion that works a lot like the Druid's animal companion, though companion choices will have to be carefully vetted, esp. with regards to at-will SLAs.

 

[smootrk]

Considering my initial concept was essentially a class for 'demon summoner/controller types', I would say you are spot on. In order to make the class more universally usable the ability needs to be opened up so that any type of niche summoner can be created.

I also think this class concept could use a specialization mechanism, so that there can be 'demon binders' or 'nature/fey summoners' or 'alien/far realms types'... etc.

 

[Flamewarrior]

I'll read this thread when I get home and see whether I have things of my own to add, but for now, I'd leave this thread with a summoner base class, since it might contain useful insight for your class.

 

[notjer]

In book of ultimate prestige classes you'll find a class called The Summoner.
- low base attack - low fort and ref save - high will save
1- Metamagic feat, + 1 level of existing class
2 -Summoning Spell, + 1 level of existing class
3 - Metamagic feat, + 1 level of existing class
4 - Summoning Spell, + 1 level of existing class
5 - Metamagic feat, + 1 level of existing class
6 - Summoning Spell, + 1 level of existing class
7 - Metamagic feat, + 1 level of existing class
8 - Summoning Spell, + 1 level of existing class
9 - Metamagic feat, + 1 level of existing class
10 - Summoning Spell, + 1 level of existing class

Metamagic feats must only be used together with summoning spells and the summoning spells gets boosted. However the creatures you summon must be creatures of your patron's/deity's list.

Maybe you could use this class as inspiration.

 

[Thaniel]

At some level, they should be able to cast Summon spells as standard action instead of full round.

Also boosts at some levels to the abilities of the summon creatures.

In addition to the Dispel summoned idea that was mentioned above, there should also be the ability to take control of other summoned creatures instead of dismissing them.

 

[Twowolves]

In book of ultimate prestige classes you'll find a class called The Summoner.
- low base attack - low fort and ref save - high will save
1- Metamagic feat, + 1 level of existing class
2 -Summoning Spell, + 1 level of existing class
3 - Metamagic feat, + 1 level of existing class
4 - Summoning Spell, + 1 level of existing class
5 - Metamagic feat, + 1 level of existing class
6 - Summoning Spell, + 1 level of existing class
7 - Metamagic feat, + 1 level of existing class
8 - Summoning Spell, + 1 level of existing class
9 - Metamagic feat, + 1 level of existing class
10 - Summoning Spell, + 1 level of existing class

Metamagic feats must only be used together with summoning spells and the summoning spells gets boosted. However the creatures you summon must be creatures of your patron's/deity's list.

Maybe you could use this class as inspiration.

Isn't this the same PrC from the Relics and Rituals I book?

Personally, one BIG thing I'd do to make a Summoning class is open up the number and types of templates and base creatures to add them to, and put some sort of hard cap on the list of critters able to be summoned for each level of Monster Summoning spells.

Oh, and make Rapid Spell an early benefit. Probably either juice up the familiar, or replace it with some kind of summoned Thrall-like ability.