D&D 3E/3.5 Sundering a bow in 3.5

[Shallown]

Ovinomancer forgets I told him where the boards are and might be reading his postings, unless he says keep out. Then I woud read without telling him

To tell you my interpretation. I am using the SRD as I don't have my books at work.

Basically the SRD says you have to use a melee weapon to make a sunder attack, However it doesn't say anything about having o have one to defend from it.

Second on the sunder information in the SRD it list Projectile weapon as a weapon that can be sundered as only shields and weapons (notice not melee weapons) can be sundered.

Third It says opposed attack roll. Not Opposed Melee attack roll.

Fourth the rules support my decision and logic could be argued to support either position. In the interest of keeping things simple I followed the rules.

Fifth since the weapon is listed under sunderable (is that a word?) items/weapons it does not fall under attacking an object.

Sixth his bonus was +22 had he treated it as just a melee weapon (even improvised he still had an exotic weapon prof in it) He woud have been at +18 still enough to beat the character's roll with what I had rolled. But more importantly, to me, it was my call.

Of course, on a side note, the whole evening left a sour taste in my mouth and this disagreement was only a minor cause of that.

later

 

[Rayne Blythewood]

It was late....

I'm sure we'll be over it and you will both come to a conclusion on which way we will use to determine it again. I vote for not chopping up the goods so we can make more money...

I guess the fight got a little nastier than we expected. Solid Fog and a Spiked Chain kept half the party tied up while the other half got assaulted by Bow boy and bard/rogue/barbarian freak.

It was fun though. It was fun watching the Blade Dancer swing 3-4 times at the archer's bow and not hit or scratch it. Although I was watching from the ground getting whipped like I stole something. LOL

Both situations in this case are clearly viable, just have to pick one and use it. Kinda stinks when it comes down to that.

My first post and I'm responding to the crying elf...
time to post my character for some insight....

 

[Ovinomancer]

Never did I think that my erstwhile GM would not read this post. I was under orders not to bring this up with him again, so I brought it up here. Just think of it as some creative problemsolving.

As for Rayne: Yes you did get beat like a litttle schoolboy, whilst this pansy elf cut down five baddies. That's five for the dancing elf, and none for the big bad ranger (at least on my end of the hallway).

@#$% bow was hard to hit though.....

 

[Gort]

Well, the "having your bow sundered all the time" is the reason why all fighters don't use bows...

Being able to full attack pretty much all the time (threatened? Just 5 foot step away, no worries) is the great advantage of being an archer.

However, you HAVE to have a stand-up fighter in the party as well, to protect you, or your bow will be in pieces all the time.

 

[Shallown]

Under orders... He thinks I'm his wife again

And Don't be to hard on Rayne. He's actually had your back for the last few interparty diagreements.

And On a completly different note.

Since you can Make multiple sunder attempts say at +18/+13/+8

does the opposed rolls Drop as well or would they all stay at the defenders highest Attack value.

Oh and on point six I forgot he would have been +21 (not +18) if he had used it as a melee weapon. Forgot some other bonuses.

later

 

[Rayne Blythewood]

Well on the other end of the hallway I killed a fiendish dire wolf, and two mages er I think they were mages. It's not my fault you guys went in the front and we teleported into the back. Besides I did atleast get to hit him with my charge damage.

Shallown does have another good question though. The archer would keep getting his higher attack modifier.

I read in a tactics book that you should use your higher attacks on the person and then sunder with your lowest attack. Don't know why they said this if it's an opposed attack roll and the enemy get's their highest.

 

[MorganKiller]

@Rayne
It's right if you treat the bow as an held ITEM, but not as a weapon.
In this situation no opposed rolls are involved and you have to hit the (ridiculous) AC of the bow. Usually a fighter doesn't need to use his best attack to hit AC 18-19...
If you treat them as weapons you are right.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I read in a tactics book that you should use your higher attacks on the person and then sunder with your lowest attack. Don't know why they said this if it's an opposed attack roll and the enemy get's their highest.

That was a suggestion in the 3E Main FAQ. It relies on a/ the "bow is a held object" interpretation, and b/ the "contrary to what the book says, Sunder is not a standard action" interpretation.

-Hyp.

 

[Conaill]

Fifth since the weapon is listed under sunderable (is that a word?) items/weapons it does not fall under attacking an object.

Not necessarily. For example, a sheathed weapon or an unreadied shield would still fall under "attacking an object". So just because it's on the list doesn't mean it always follows the Sunder rules...

As a compromise, you could also let the archer use his bow as an improvised melee weapon with respect to sundering. He won't get his ranged attack bonuses, and he'll have to put up with a -4 improvised weapon penalty, but it might still be worth it...

 

[Shallown]

...And neither is an unreadied bow but a readied, any of those things, are not considered objects in my opinion.

Just the way I see it.

later