Sundering Armor Mechanic

[Felnar]

in response to this thread http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=156834

what reason is there to not allow armor to be sundered?
if you can think of a reason please post it in that thread ^^^^^^
here i'd like to discuss mechanics for sundering armor

i'd like a system for damaging armor that isnt used for every hit, but is an additional tactical option for combat

here's my initial idea:
Sundering Armor - as Sundering a Carried or Worn Object from PHB with following modifications

An armor's AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier + the Dexterity modifier of the carrying or wearing character + any dodge, deflection, or shield modifiers.

Armor reduced to zero hit points functions normally. Then for every 5 hit points below zero, the AC bonus of the armor is reduced by 1. When it's reduced to +0 armor bonus (ie. taken double its max hitpoints) it is destroyed (unrepairable)
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I still need something for scaling when armor loses armor bonus for smaller and larger sized armor

i'm not sure i have the right modifiers for the armors AC

also, magic armor adds more hitpoints than normal armor bonus would, so figuring when it should lose armor bonus is more complex

Edit: armor has hardness as normal based on its material. And possibly masterwork quality should add to the armors hardness or hitpoints

okay, have at it
remember, this is for discussing the mechanics, not if they should be used

 

[the Jester]

Looks pretty darn easy to sunder someone's armor to me.

 

[Felnar]

Looks pretty darn easy to sunder someone's armor to me.

are you considering the armors hardness?

 

[The Edge]

Ah, good. This is something ive thought about, but so far hadn't really tried working anything out.

in response to this thread http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=156834
Armor reduced to zero hit points functions normally. Then for every 5 hit points below zero, the AC bonus of the armor is reduced by 1. When it's reduced to +0 armor bonus (ie. taken double its max hitpoints) it is destroyed (unrepairable)

I like this bit, sounds about right and works well. (at least in my head)

in response to this thread http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=156834
also, magic armor adds more hitpoints than normal armor bonus would, so figuring when it should lose armor bonus is more complex

Perhaps just give it more hps per AC mod; so rather than losing 1AC per 5 damage, 1AC per 6,8 or 10 (whatever seems right).

 

[Felnar]

Perhaps just give it more hps per AC mod; so rather than losing 1AC per 5 damage, 1AC per 6,8 or 10 (whatever seems right).

I chose 5 because the hitpoints of a suit of armor = "armor bonus * 5"
so since 1 unit of AC was 5 hitpoints, losing 5 hitpoints should lose 1 unit of AC
my thought process anyway...

also, i feel my description might not be clear so i'll attempt to clarify
i'll use scale mail as an example (armor bonus = +4)
so scale mail has 4 * 5 = 20 hitpoints
and its iron/steel so: hardness = 10

from 20 to 0 hitpoints the armor functions normally (+4 AC)
from 0 to -4 hitpoints the armor functions normally (+4 AC)
from -5 to -9 hitpoints the armor is at reduced performance (+3 AC)
from -10 to -14 hitpoints the armor is at reduced performance (+2 AC)
from -15 to -19 hitpoints the armor is at reduced performance (+1 AC)
at -20 the armor is destroyed

full plate wouldnt be destroyed until -40 hitpoints
hopefully that clears up any possible confusion

 

[DamionW]

To me it seems a lot of time wasted when you could be trying to kill the person wearing the armor instead. That's just my first thoughts.

 

[The Edge]

Hmm. Yes I thought that was how you were working it. In that case where is the problem with magic armour? More AC, whether from magic or otherwise would mean more hit points.

That's the bit I got a little confused over.

 

[Rhun]

The first thing that pops into my head is how do you sunder a person's armor without sundering the person inside of the armor, too?

 

[Sir Brennen]

The first thing that pops into my head is how do you sunder a person's armor without sundering the person inside of the armor, too?

Yep. Exactly...

I actually use armor sundering in my own game, but as a possible fumble result, not something a character tries to do on purpose.

Sunder Armor: Roll normal damage of opponent's weapon and apply it to fumbler's armor as if making a Sunder attempt. For every five hit points of damage (after hardness is subtracted), the armor's AC bonus is reduced by 1.

I have similar results for shield, weapon or carried item. Feats like Improved Sunder, however, don't appy to these results.

You might have the sunder armor happen occassionaly as part of a critical result: a confirmation roll which falls in the original threat range, for example. Have the armor take (damage x [Crit Multiplier -1]), with the target taking normal crit damage.

Example: A fighter with a sword doing 1d8+4 damage and crit multiplier x2 rolls a crit threat (natural 19-20). If he rolls a natural 19 or 20 on the confirmation roll, 1d8+4 damage goes to the armor, and 2d8+8 goes to the target (the first 1d8+4 could and probably should just use the same die that was rolled against the armor.)

A battleaxe (crit x3) in the above example would do 2d8+8 to armor and 3d8+12 to the target. (Again, apply the first 2d8 to both armor and target, and roll another 1d8 for the target.) Can'tcha just see that axe biting into someone's breastplate?

You could also have weapon or shield receive the sundering damage instead - character's option or roll randomly.

Going this route, you could probably just have every 5 points of damage reduce AC, rather than having to take it negative, since it will occur far less frequently.

 

[the Jester]

are you considering the armors hardness?

At even low mid levels, a pc fighter is going to easily knock down the enemy's AC by a point or two. In my low-magic setting 4th-level some characters dish out 15-20 hp in a blow.