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Sunless Citadel question: opening a can of wyrms..spoilers)

Gizzard

First Post
...and you can get a great moment out of it -- the moment that little Trogdor saves them from certain death, proving that they've finally won his loyalty and trust.

Or the moment when little Trogdor catches them battered from a tough encounter and decides to finish them off himself and eat their eyes. Keeping an evil Dragon as a pet seems an awful lot like keeping a baby Pit Fiend around because he's so cute when he's little. See below:
 

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Droogie

Explorer
Thanks for all the advice, all. :)


But it seems to me that it would make a fun subplot, it doesn't wreck suspension of disbelief, it doesn't overpower the characters (you said yourself that it's much less powerful than them), and you can get a great moment out of it -- the moment that little Trogdor saves them from certain death, proving that they've finally won his loyalty and trust.

If it makes everyone have more fun in the game, why not go for it?

I can see how it will be fun, and I might let them try it, at least for a little while.
Realistically speaking, though, I think no good will come of it, since the dragon is inherently evil and most of the party is good-aligned. Also, I figure it will try to escape by any means neccessary. Heck, I would. As Laslo said:

Someone pointed it out above, but a dragon is not an animal. It is a fully sentient creature who, as a child, is as smart as the average human, and it's just going to get smarter.

Keeping it against it's will is slavery.

The party breakdown looks like this:

The CG ranger/wizard wants to keep it for a pet. He speaks draconic, and its definitely in character for him to show interest in the little beasty.

The CN Sorcerer thinks it dangerous, and I guess offensive, to keep a dragon in captivity.

The NG elven druid is against the whole idea. She believes there will be dire consequences.

The CG halfing rogue is afraid of it and wants nothing to do with it.

The N ranger/barbarian is the one who wants to sell it.

Basically, its 2 vs. three. Keeping the dragon bottled up is a task that falls on the two rangers, and I think the druid will eventually refuse to cast her Endure Elements spell.

Having Cal trick the PCs is a cool idea. So is the plot hook. Hmmm.
I was planning on putting them through Forge of Fury next....maybe I could change the color of a certain beasty at the end to white. Hmmm. Think, pooh bear. Think...think...think....
 

med stud

First Post
MikeWilliams said:
Ask yourself how other "nearby" dragons, good and evil, would react to one of their kind being sold into slavery. Sure, it's easy to do the heroic thing and fight off an evil dragon, but what do you do when a good dragon (and, hey, to tie this into another thread, the dragon's paladin) shows up and accuses you of slavery.

The good dragons probably want the evil dragons dead, and wont care about them in slavery. The evil dragons wont care about each others, if going by the D&D defenitions of evil. It seems dealing in evil dragons is a pretty safe business in that respect (maybe not in others ;) )
 

Darkness

Hand and Eye of Piratecat [Moderator]
X.plosion said:
One thing you have to remember is that dragons are SMART, many smarter than most humans. While it is a wyrmling, it does posses an INT of 10, which is more than the average human.
It has an Int of 6, actually...
 


nameless

First Post
If the party was smart (read: munchkins), they'd force the wee, but slow-to-develop dragonling to breed with faster developing critters like horses or dogs. A flying, frost breathing, superstrong horse that matures in 8 months seems like a good pet.

This assumes that wyrmling dragons are capable of breeding. Going by human notions of age category, young adult is probably the earliest that a dragon would be able to breed, but who really knows (besides the DM and the dragon)?
 

WizarDru

Adventurer
Droogie said:
Having Cal trick the PCs is a cool idea. So is the plot hook. Hmmm.
I was planning on putting them through Forge of Fury next....maybe I could change the color of a certain beasty at the end to white. Hmmm. Think, pooh bear. Think...think...think....

Two things to consider: One, Calcryx is NOT smart. Cunning, perhaps, but not terribly clever. Remember, he's a WHITE dragon, and unlike their smarter brethren, the whites are often described as the closest to bestial. Unlike say, a red dragon, Calcryx only has an Int of 6, not 10. To give another comparison, he currently has the same Int as an Ogre. It's not unreasonable to believe he's not long out of the egg. He's probably mastered speech, and most likely knows some Draconic and Common. He might be smart enough to try and trick them, but it won't be a cunning plan. Mind you, convincing them to go to the Forge is a pretty solid tie-in, and it's a simple enough trick that it is well within his mental range. Remember the adage, Keep It Simple Sunless. :)

Second, if you do use this as a linkage piece to the forge, make sure that you either keep Nightscale as is (possibly an egg thief who sold Calcyrx off, for some reason) or modify the environment that Nightscale is found in. I say this because Nightscale's entire encounter is based on her environment (i.e. the water), and a White Dragon doesn't HAVE water-breathing, making her much more vulnerable to attack, and generally changing the threat-level of the encounter. It also makes it harder to understand how Nightscale gets in and out of the mountain, if she doesn't swim. Then, you end up either making a big visible cave that the PCs may stumble upon at the beginning (which is BAD), or a logic gap that may or may not be a problem for your group.
 

Wicht

Hero
Keeping a small evil dragon around that you are not trying to kill is extremely dangerous. The silly thing can use its breath weapon on a very frequent basis. In a combat that only last a few rounds it doesn't make a lot of difference, but in a term of real-time, it can try breathing on people more than once a minute. We will for simplicities sake, make it 2 breath attempts a minute, or 120 an hour, or 2880 breath attempts a day. Assuming that the party is very smart and only lets the person who has endure elements on them near the dragon that person will still lose about 5-20 hps an hour from cold. The breath weapon will do 6 points of damage 1/6th of the time or 20 times an hour. The endure elements only sucks up 5 hps worth of damage. And every time the person fails their save on a breath damage of 6 they lose 1 hp.

Furthermore, the dragon will try to breath on other people too with its savage cunning. Can your party protect everyone with endure elements all day long? And what about any beasts of burden used to carry the dragon? Will they be protected?

If I was the dragon, I would look to use my breath weapon, first on animals near enough and then on unprotected people.
 
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Wicht

Hero
Of course if you wanted to really play the dragon as cunning and feral, when they first get near it, it flies into a rage, breathing as often as possible, injuring people within 30 feet.

Then it calms down and glares at them. Later that night, while the party is sleeping, they are awoken by the screaming of horses. By the time they get awake, say two minutes later, it is too late, the horses are dead. The dragon killed them with its breath weapon.

The horses lie frozen and the dragon is curled up, feigning sleep. They are now forced to haul it by hand. It amuses itself by trying to ice up the ground and periodically breathing icy breath straight into the face of the ones carrying the cage. Everytime they try and make their save they drop the cage on a failed reflex save.

The cage begins to weaken by the constant handling, dropping and freezing breath and the dragon works at it trying to get loose.

In the end, if you play it right, I will wager they eventually kill it and you don't have to figure out the price. :)
 
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CCamfield

First Post
Here's a thought, and maybe it doesn't really work with the rules, but if a (small) white dragon breathes on iron bars, would they become more brittle and easy to break?

While it doesn't seem an overwhelming pet, imagine if the dragon got out of its cage when they were in a city? It could cause havoc that the players would have to explain away or pay for, and they'd have to track it down. Perhaps others would want to capture it for more nefarious ends...
 

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