Supernal/Abyssal Words of Power?

[Journeymanmage]

However, another player in the group said that you can't take those languages at first level because they contain words of power. So, because of these 'words of power,' our DM is now saying that you can't use that feat to learn these languages.

So, my question is, what are words of power, and how do they pertain to learning Abyssal/Supernal, and how do you learn those languages?

Thanks, in advance.

Where exactly is your group getting this "words of power" thing from? What book is it in? What game mechanics are given to it?

Could be a case of someone bringing version 3 - 3.5 rules over to the 4th edition game.

Book of Exalted Deeds
Book of Vile Darkness

Those books have rules for bonuses and special "tricks" for knowing the associated languages.

Book of Exalted Deeds: pg31
"The Words of Creation are fragments of a lost language thought to be the precursor of the Celestial tongue. Very few Celestials remember some of these words, and even fewer mortals have access to one or two of them as well." ...

Feat - Words of Creation: You can use Words of Creation to enhance Good spells, etc... (Prereq: Int 15, Cha 15, Exalted (really, really dedicated to the cause of GOOD)).

Effects such as:
- Double the spell effects of Inspire Courage, Inspire Greatness.
- Gain a +4 bonus to Creation effects / Craftsman Checks.
- +1 effective spell level (but take xd4 non-lethal damage)
- True name (blah blah blah)

 

[UltimaGabe]

I have a feeling this player is just making crap up and our DM is thinking he's reading it out of the books.

Exactly. I think that's somewhat like a player saying to a Wizard PC, "Oh, that Light spell you have? You can blind people with that by casting it on their eyes." and then the DM saying, "You can't take Light anymore. No at-will power should be allowed to blind someone."

According to the PHB, Supernal is a language, with the only difference being that you can't take it at level 1. If someone out of nowhere says, "Ooh, that's got Words of Power" in it, I'd then ask two questions- A. "Really? What does that mean?" and B. "What book is that from?" The fact that your DM is disallowing something based on a fluff description with no mechanics or even an actual reference to anything seems quite ignorant. If someone at my game mentions something that I'm not familiar with, I don't allow it until I at least read it over in the respective book.

 

[fba827]

The only thing I can think of is that he got it from the DMG, because it's certainly not in the PhB. But I don't have the DMG in front of me.

I heard of the words of power thing in 3.X splat books, but never in 4e (but who knows, maybe i missed it). Or the player is just remembering stuff from previous editions that may or may not apply to the current DM's campaign (who knows, the DM may have house ruled it in as a carry over to fit in with this other player's background or something?)

The same player also said that Draconic is the same thing as Abyssal, just a different dialect.

House rules and campaign-specific changes by the DM aside, in 4e, those are two distinct languages. They do not even share the same script! (PHB chart at start of book, before the races and classes sections)

 

[DracoSuave]

Linguist allows you to choose any three languages.

As a first level character, you cannot learn Supernal or Abyssal.

If you are a first level character with Linguist, nothing specific overrides that restriction, which means you cannot take those languages as a first level character (unless your race/class allows it, or similiar exception)

 

[Turtlejay]

What's with the burning desire to learn those two languages, by the way? Seems pretty unlikely to come up in most campaigns.

And yeah, your quote from the DM seems to betray a lack of understanding about the game. . .either he really doesn't get it, or it was taken out of context, or he is just saying words to shut you up.

Jay

 

[DracoSuave]

Looking into the Deva/Supernal thing:

Supernal can be used to communicate with any creature so long as the speaker is a god or angel. The immortal origin is not mentioned in the DMG. Devas are neither gods, nor angels, therefore do not benefit.

Abyssal has no such benefit regardless of origin, even if spake by a primordial.

 

[Tale]

Looking into the Deva/Supernal thing:

Supernal can be used to communicate with any creature so long as the speaker is a god or angel. The immortal origin is not mentioned in the DMG.

I'm going to have to be doubtful on this claim until I look at my DMG. Because this exempts Devils.

 

[lukelightning]

I'm going to have to be doubtful on this claim until I look at my DMG. Because this exempts Devils.

I just checked... yep, it's gods and angels — I could have sworn that it was immortals.

Anyways, it turns out there is a paragon feat for devas that gives them Supernal as a language along with the universal language option.

 

[Mirtek]

The words of power part is actually indeed mentioned in the character builder. But it seems to be pure fluff.

BTW, there is one way to learn supernal at first level: take a book imp as arcane familiar and you'll learn supernal as an side-effect.

As the why it would be usefull? Aside from showing off, you might be able to eavesdrop on some angels reverting to supernal without the "all can understand us effect", thinking that this allows them to freely dicuss private things in front of the clueless mortals unable to understand them. Although that's a very rare circumstance

 

[Colmarr]

What's with the burning desire to learn those two languages, by the way? Seems pretty unlikely to come up in most campaigns.

While I agree with you about Supernal, Abyssal has proven very useful in our campaign. All those cultists' ritual inscriptions, ritual books and messages are written in it!