Supernatural abilities and rage

[bestone]

Me and my friend were having a discussion about this, and it was unclear to one of us for certain, what you can and cant do in a rage when it comes to supernatural abilities

It states some supernatural abilities function AS the spell right?

well in a rage you cant cast spells (realizing that functioning as and actually being are different)

Rage also states nothing that requires patience or concentration (but its true nothing states a supernatural ability requires concentration, only that its a standard action that functions, again AS a spell)

So for example, a dragon, having the supernatural abilities to use a breath weapon, and alternate form....

In a rage, could he use either? do you use not so common common sense to say anything that functions as a spell couldnt be used?

I could see a dragon in a rage using breath, but could they use thier alternate form?

would a rogue/barb get sneak attack damage while flanking?
Can a cleric turn undead while raged?

 

[bestone]

i'll take it from the lack of replies, that common sense should be used

 

[Felix]

Me and my friend were having a discussion about this, and it was unclear to one of us for certain, what you can and cant do in a rage when it comes to supernatural abilities

Well, Rage doesn't disallow (Su) abilities outright, so let's look further...

It states some supernatural abilities function AS the spell right?

Yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean the ability requires patience or concentration.

well in a rage you cant cast spells (realizing that functioning as and actually being are different)

Right.

So for example, a dragon, having the supernatural abilities to use a breath weapon, and alternate form....

In a rage, could he use either? do you use not so common common sense to say anything that functions as a spell couldnt be used?

I don't see anything that would disallow the Dragon's use of his breath weapon. However, in Alternate Form, it does say "This ability functions as a polymorph spell cast on itself at its caster level". So I would disallow the use of the alternate form ability while raging, on the grounds that it requires as much concentration as a spell, even if you can't disrupt it like you can disrupt a spell.

would a rogue/barb get sneak attack damage while flanking?
Can a cleric turn undead while raged?

There is nothing preventing a barb/rogue from sneak attacking while raging. Some posters here disagree that you should be able to do that, but technically it's ok.

I don't know what the rule is for clerics turning while raging. I would say that channeling divine power through your holy symbol requires concentration, and so you may not do it while raging.

 

[Sithobi1]

However, supernatural abilities do not provoke attacks of opportunity and never require Concentration checks.

Su abilities can be used while Raging.

 

[bestone]

Well, Rage doesn't disallow (Su) abilities outright, so let's look further...


Yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean the ability requires patience or concentration.


I don't see anything that would disallow the Dragon's use of his breath weapon. However, in Alternate Form, it does say "This ability functions as a polymorph spell cast on itself at its caster level". So I would disallow the use of the alternate form ability while raging, on the grounds that it requires as much concentration as a spell, even if you can't disrupt it like you can disrupt a spell.

the basics of the argument came down to this, spell like abilities are used like spells, supernatural abilities function AS spells

the defenition of functioning as spells is where the problem arises

Functioning as the spell simply means??, instead of them typing out what the ability does again, it works like the spell of the same name, thus if in the spells description it required concentration, then you couldnt use it (obviously)

it is not cast, nor prepared, nor used like a spell

its simply an ability they have (and supernatural abilities CAN be used while raged) that functions LIKE the spell

its not the spell, it just has the same effect

im still of the opinion, spell-like things werent intended to be used while raged however

 

[Seeten]

My criteria for this is:

If I was mad as holy hell and seeing red, would I breathe huge gouts of fire on my enemies to incinerate them? Yes.

Would I use implosion? Yes.

Would I stop and spend time changing my shape into a human? No.

Would I try to charm them? No.

I think anything thats quickly done, and causes mayhem and panic and great destruction is perfect while raging, while things require thought, and planning are not acceptable.

Also, welcome to the boards, Bestone

 

[phindar]

well in a rage you cant cast spells (realizing that functioning as and actually being are different)

Rage also states nothing that requires patience or concentration (but its true nothing states a supernatural ability requires concentration, only that its a standard action that functions, again AS a spell)

Actually, I'd be more inclined to list Spell-likes as abilities that function as a spell, and Supernatural abilities as more "instinctive" (making them a-okay for raging).

Rage isn't a blind or uncontrollable rage, after all. You can still think somewhat rationally, you can make tactical decisions, use missile weapons, and so on. There is a specific list of what abilities you can't use while Raging (certain skills, spells, etc), and I don't see any reason to tack more onto it.

 

[Whimsical]

An illithid purple worm (neothelid with Burrow) swallowed a companion, then burrowed into the ground the following round. My enraged dwarven barbarian/spirit shaman/earth dreamer used her supernatural earth dreamer ability to move through earth as a xorn does to chase down that illithid purple worm, take it down, then recover the companion.

That was fun.

 

[frankthedm]

I could see a dragon in a rage using breath, but could they use thier alternate form?
....
Can a cleric turn undead while raged?

Supernatural abilties will work just fine while raging. Spell-like abilities will be a DM's call. I'd Favor "no spell likes while raging", but I would never allow any splat spells that forced raging onto a target. The limits on raging seem pretty geared to only bone PCs, which even I'll admit is a touch cheesy since how much just one level of barbarian adds to most monsters.

While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats.

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp)
Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A few spell-like abilities are unique; these are explained in the text where they are described.

A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus or have an XP cost. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability’s use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell:

Using a spell-like ability while threatened provokes attacks of opportunity. It is possible to make a Concentration check to use a spell-like ability defensively and avoid provoking an attack of opportunity. A spell-like ability can be disrupted just as a spell can be. Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and to being dispelled by dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated...

Supernatural Abilities (Su)
Supernatural abilities are magical and go away in an antimagic field but are not subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or to being dispelled by dispel magic. Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise. Supernatural abilities may have a use limit or be usable at will, just like spell-like abilities. However, supernatural abilities do not provoke attacks of opportunity and never require Concentration checks. Unless otherwise noted, a supernatural ability has an effective caster level equal to the creature’s Hit Dice. The saving throw (if any) against a supernatural ability is:

10 + ½ the creature’s HD + the creature’s ability modifier (usually Charisma).

 

[Darklone]

If a player wants to do something that's not allowed during Rage... tell him he can always end it.