Sure Strike.

[That One Guy]

I want sure strike to stop being so bad. I'm thinking of having it still be [W] damage but make it Str + Wis or Dex vs. AC. Would this be too powerful? I'm thinking it would make two handed reach weapons quite a bit better. It would also make power attacking much more viable. Would it be worth it? Would it somehow be too good?

How would a similar treatment for Careful Strike work?

Would a tiering bonus of +3/+6/+9 to hit work better? Worse? What have people tried to make these more viable?

What about just giving Fighters and Rangers Valiant Strike instead of Sure Strike? How badly would this affect 'The Balance'?

(...martial power being pushed back to November makes me sad. And I always forget that it's November and not October...)

 

[Nifft]

I want sure strike to stop being so bad. I'm thinking of having it still be [W] damage

I haven't seen any implementations that don't suck, except a few which both suck as normal powers and are broken when used in corner cases (e.g. Heavy Blade Opportunity).

Here's a new idea, though:

Sure Strike -- Fighter Attack 1
At-Will • Martial, Weapon
Standard • Melee
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength +2 vs. AC
Hit: 1[w] damage.
Effect: You gain a +2 power bonus to attack rolls until the end of your next round.
Special: Increase damage to 2[w] at 21st level.

Then it would be a setup power, rather than being just a waste of a standard action.

Cheers, -- N

 

[keterys]

I think just 'Special: This power counts as a basic attack.' would make it good enough, honestly.

 

[Nifft]

I think just 'Special: This power counts as a basic attack.' would make it good enough, honestly.

Why? So you could get extra damage from Bracers of Mighty Striking instead of just adding Str?

If you just mean for opportunity attacks, that's already mostly covered by Heavy Blade Opportunity, the one half-way decent justification I've seen for taking the power.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Cadfan]

The problem with Sure Strike is that it doesn't perform its job.

There are four at wills for Fighters.

The "job" of Tide of Iron is to push people while dealing some damage. It does exactly that.

The "job" of Cleave is to give you extra damage spread around to multiple targets. It does exactly that.

The "job" of Reaping Strike is to increase your net damage to a single target. It does that.

The "job" of Sure Strike is... umm... well, its not to increase your net damage, because it decreases it. And when it wants to compete for the job of "more certain to get some damage dealt" it fails, because Reaping Strike is almost as good. For my Fighter, for instance, Reaping Strike gives me a guarantee of 4 damage with a chance for 2d6+7, average 14. Sure Strike instead offers me only a slightly better chance of 2d6+3, average 10.

My opinion on at wills in general is this- no two at wills for the same class should have the same job. Because if they do, somebody will crunch the numbers and prove which one does that job better. Like Careful Shot and Twin Strike- they both perform the task of increasing accuracy at the cost of damage, so you can prove mathematically which one does it better for which types of targets.

Sure Strike needs an entirely new job, because its present jobs are taken by better powers. Nifft's set-up attack idea is a good one if only for that reason: it provides an entirely new job that no other fighter at will power can perform. Judging the power then becomes dependent on rating the value of its job (a somewhat subjective question) rather than dependent on the objective question of the power's strength in comparison to other, similar powers.

Also, Nifft, I put a compendium post in my shadowcaster thread without all the red text you hate.

 

[keterys]

Why? So you could get extra damage from Bracers of Mighty Striking instead of just adding Str?

If you just mean for opportunity attacks, that's already mostly covered by Heavy Blade Opportunity, the one half-way decent justification I've seen for taking the power.

Cheers, -- N

HBO only applies to a thin slice of fighters, especially when you consider the subset of fighters who are levels 1 through 10.

It would make Sure Strike gain extra damage from the bracers, let it work with charges (especially if charging minions), and give it a _real_ home in working with opportunity attacks for combat superiority. In addition to its "I'm good for killing lone minions" shtick it has at the moment.

 

[tintagel]

What about:

+2 to hit
[W]+Wis damage

Fits the name well, fits the Wis as secondary build for fighters, seems to fit the flavor of a more careful (and considered) attack. Doesn't reduce damage too much for Wis builds.

Oh, and also considered a basic attack?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

What about:

+2 to hit
[W]+Wis damage

Fits the name well, fits the Wis as secondary build for fighters, seems to fit the flavor of a more careful (and considered) attack. Doesn't reduce damage too much for Wis builds.

Oh, and also considered a basic attack?

I thought about granting Sure Strike adding WIS to attack and removing the +WIS bonus to Attack of Opportunities.

 

[Nifft]

The problem with Sure Strike is that it doesn't perform its job.
[...]
Sure Strike needs an entirely new job, because its present jobs are taken by better powers. Nifft's set-up attack idea is a good one if only for that reason: it provides an entirely new job that no other fighter at will power can perform.

Yup, that was my goal, though you said it in a way that actually makes sense.

Also, Nifft, I put a compendium post in my shadowcaster thread without all the red text you hate.

Let me take a look later tonight...

Cheers, -- N

 

[Stalker0]

What about:

+2 to hit
[W]+Wis damage

Fits the name well, fits the Wis as secondary build for fighters, seems to fit the flavor of a more careful (and considered) attack. Doesn't reduce damage too much for Wis builds.

Oh, and also considered a basic attack?

Again though, the issue is your our competing with another at-will, in this case reaping strike. Reaping Strike increases the average damage of the fighter. Sure strike mods with a bonus to attack do the same way.

While I don't know if Nifft's answer is the right one, that's teh train of thought that will the most useful in the long run. Focus on things that cleave, tide of iron, and reaping strike DO NOT DO.