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Survivability for "Heart of Nightfang Spire"?

Victim

First Post
Despite its difficulty, I loved playing through the adventure. With good tactics and preparation, it would become much easier - but still tough. You can't go through on automatic pilot, following the old charge-hack-hack, fireball-magic missile, heal routine. If you can use spells or mobility to prevent full attacks from Girallons, then they aren't so tough.

The tricky part is getting the group to actually do it. Our group just bludgeoned through - our "leader's" motto was Charge, along with Force March. That's why we could have been getting discounts from the "Frequent Donors" program at the temple of lathandar from all the dang resurrections.

Amazingly, we seemed to do much better when only the original 4 characters showed up.

However, when we played through it, Gulthias and that wight assassin thing didn't make an appearence until we attacked them in the middle. But that bum had been scrying us - even while we buffed up to go after him - and thus knew who to target. Both our wizard and sorceress died right away. That fight was great, but would have been rather strange to watch. Everyone was flying and Improved Invis. If I remember right, the module recommends a huge tactical error for Gulthias - Globe of Invulnerability. While spell effects can freely leave the sphere, even the caster's spells are suppressed while within. It's real smooth for the caster to lose his Haste, See Invis, Fly, II, and who knows what else in the middle of a fight. I think he was supposed to attempt to nail the cleric too, but changing that targeting priority was a smart move on the DM's part.
 

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Rackhir

Explorer
There's no question that Nightfang Spire is a very nasty module and that the group you've currently mentioned is hoplessly inadiquate. As others have mentioned, a full blown cleric, hopefully specialized as an undead killer is a must. I would also recomend at least 6 pcs, it helps minimize the prospects of one character getting unlucky and thus depriving the party of a vital skill/ability/power when somebody dies/drained. In fact, I don't think I'd even bother to up any of the encounters for the larger party size.

That said, it's not a bad module. A lot of it depends on what kind of game you prefer. The players in Zad/Wizardru's campaign prefer a much more laid back approach to things and hadn't had a PC death until Nightfang Spire. However, (contact)'s players (SH: Liberation of Tenh and Temple of Elemental Evil 2 - Homebrew) however are used to getting fed through a meat grinder and wouldn't blink an eye at what they'd face or the losses they'd take. Given that they lost 30 characters or so going through ToEE2.

Personally, I like the desperate stands against strong odds, where half the party is down or dead and the living characters are teetering on the edge as the last monster goes down. There's a lot of potential for that kind of desperate epic struggle in Nighfang Spire. It's a cool enviroment and there are some memorable bad guys. Properly run it could make for the high point of a campaign. If nothing else I guarentee it will keep your players on their toes.

... But, if the DM is not careful or is a sadistic SOB, it can turn into a TPK very quickly.
 

we went in with 4 level 9 PC's

Some spoilers below:












Party was comprised of:

"Bull" - 9th level fighter
Durin - 9th level wizard
Pendril - 9th level Paladin
Sinjin - 9th level rogue.

We actually did not encounter too many deaths, (4 total, and they were all individual) but we did suffer a LOT of ability and level drains, which really cost us a good sum of coin and slowed progress down.

Sinjin was the first to die. We had come upon a large semicircular room. The floor was covered in several inches of ash, and in the middle of the room, a large column of fire blazed from the floor and rose to the ceiling. It was evident that this room was used as an incinerator. We acted cautiously, and the wizard cast detect magic. He discovered two magical auras close to the center of the room. The objects were obviously buried under the ash. I believe one of the magical auras was minor and the other was moderate, so Sinjin the rogue deftly and stealthily entered the room, relying on his search ability to find the first of the two objects. Unfortunately, the moment he uncovered the first item, the elder fire elemental that had previously shown no signs of life (the paladin had attempted to detect evil, and detected nothing in the room, because the elemental was neutral), surprised sinjin and pummelled him with a firy fist. Sinjin not only took damage, but he also caught fire. After rolling for initiative, the Elemental won, and proceeded to pummel the rogue with a full attack action, which left sinjin dead and burning. The rest of the group sprang to action and luckliy were able to pull the rogue's carcass out of the room. Sinjin was resurrected, but was now a level 8 rogue. AARRGH!.

Later, our group returned to the spire to end the threat of Gulthias. The resurrection, restorations and numerous cures had cost us a healthy portion of the spoils we had gathered, and all but the Paladin were starting to grumble that perhaps this particular adventure was not as lucrative as we had expected. We wondered if perhaps the task of defeating Gulthias might be best left to the highly religious, but Pendril was adamant that we continue in the name of all that was holy. Soon, we came upon a narrow passage of catacombs, laden with treasure, but lined with crypts that were built into the walls. Something did not feel right about the situation; it was as if traversing the corridor and claiming the piles of sparkling jewels were all too easy. Pendril used his divine ability to detect evil once again, and this time, he sensed a tremendous force of evil in one of the sarcophogi at the end of the corridor. He told us to stand back at the intersection. He would attempt to get close to the crypt and call upon his deity to help repell the menace that lay beyond. We were all surprised by what happened next. A plethora of hideous spectres converged from the shadows to attack Pendril. Before he could attempt to run, he was swarnmed by the creatures and they began draining the life force from him. All of us sprang to action, but the creature in the crypt also joined the fray. We learned much later that this new malignancy was known as Aoket, the mummy monk. Our group fought valiantly to try to save Pendril, but alas, the spectres drained him of 8 levels, and the mummy was able to stun him with a blow that also dropped him to the floor and into unconsciousness. The shrouded one then activated a magical device on his helm and teleported from our presence. We had lost our greatest friend, but we had no time to mourn him, because the spectres wanted us as well. It was then, that Sinjin drew forth the "Pale Piercer", a powerful weapon that he had in fact previously rescued from the halls of Nightfang Spire. Bull and Durin had also suffered from the life draining attacks of the spectres, and now they attempted to retreat. Sinjin kept the spectres at bay, and eventually, the spectres were destroyed.

The remaining trio fled the tower, and eventually, exhaustion forced them to stop. Now, the realization that Pendril had fallen began to sink in, and no one spoke. It was Durin who recalled that Pendril had been taken by the mummy, and that had they wanted to kill him, Pendril's corpse would surely have been hacked to pieces. Durin explained that he might be able to scry on Pendril to see if in fact he was still alive, and if he was, we might mount a surprise assault on the spire and free him. So, after some prepartion and travel, Durin produced a mirror, and began to scry. Soon, the mirror revealed the unconscious but breathing Pendril, now strapped into a chair. He appeared to be in a laboratory. Durin began to scan the room, and it was in the mirror, for the first time, that we caught a glimpse of Gulthias the vampire. The creature's senses alerted him to the fact that he was being spied upon, and he quickly cast a spell that blocked Durin's ability to scry. However, we knew that Pendril was alive. Later, we scried again, and Durin attempted to teleport us directly into the room, but we found out the hard way that the room was magically sealed and prevented teleportation. The only way we were going to save Pendril, was to go back in and continue delving through the layers of the spire. (Pendril did in fact die, but he was resurrected by another of our nemeses, Quinn the necromancer, whom the DM added to the game for roleplay purposes. Quinn resurrected Pendril so that he could continue torturing him)

We entered the spire again. This time, we had enlisted the help of a gnome cleric to aid us. Erky Timbers was his name, and his aid was much appreciated. We eventually found Pendril. He was in a huge pit, surrounded by hundreds and hundreds of undead, who were commanded by Quinn and Gulthias. This was the army of undead that Gulthias was preparing to unleash on Safeton and the towns of the Wild Coast. Pendril had been in this pit for almost ten days. He would gain consciousness and fight, only to be overwhelmed by the undead and lose consciousness again. In this state, he was subjected to the hideous evil whisperings of Quinn, who unraveled tales of death and misery to break the spirit of the noble Paladin. Alas, Erky Timbers died in the pit, ripped apart by the hordes of skeletons and zombies, which then feasted on his flesh. The screams of the gnome were horrendous, and I must beg your forgiveness as I pause, now that the remembrance of that awful moment fills my mind.

We fled the spire yet again, but we were now committed, one and all, to bring the evil of Gulthias and Quinn to an end, or at least die trying. We ventured into the tower again. We soon came upon a nest of gorillians. These beasts were terrible foes in combat. They were able to shred a man apart in only a moment. We soon realized that we would have to use our wits tobeat them, and it was here that Durin bestowed an improved invisibility and a haste on Sinjin. This was the ticket the rogue needed, as he gutted a number of the beasts, impaling them with the pale piercer in lethal areas. Bull and Pendril also fought, and Durin was able to take a few of the foes out with a fireball and a lightning bolt. it was only after we slew the beasts that we learned of their young. We now realized that they had been trying to communicate with us at one point, but we mistook their overtures as threats, and we killed them all. If only we had been able to speak with them, we might have gained a much needed ally, but alas, fate dictated otherwise.

We continued on our quest. We soon came upon an altar of evil design. The altar had an inscription on its surface, in a language that only our wizard could read. He read the words aloud, to see if we could make sense of their meaning. The meaning became quite clear, because as soon as the words departed from his lips, a beam of energy engulfed Durin, and the dwarven wizard, proud member of the Dun-Balbak clan, collapsed. His body twitched for a moment and then all was still.

We left the spire once again, and Pendril returned the body of Durin to his clan. The trip took him a month, but in his absence, the rest of the group travelled to Greyhawk to re-supply. Our more recent encounters had provided us with some much needed funds, and we used the coin to enchant armor and purchase provisions and supplies to aid us in what we hoped would soon be the final battle. We also were joined by a new wizard, the wise and sagacious Gilidarius, and a cleric of Heironeous, Cathan.

When we returned, the spire had undergone a change. The broken battlements had been restored. A large ramp, that spanned a distance of some one hundred feet had been erected to allow ingress to the tower's mid section. As we approached, a black knight of death awaited us on his horse at the top of the ramp. The death knight charged at us, and Pendril wheeled his stallion to meet the charge. While this happened, a group of other undead minions came running out and the rest of us had to deal with the new threat. The tide was turning though. We dispatched the knight and his followers without too much difficulty and we entered the spire once again.

Within hours, we cleared out all of the lower levels of the tower, and we had collected all four pieces of a key that had to be used to gain entrance to the center of the spire, which was known as "the core". Once we opened the core, we came upon Aoket again and what turned out to be a wight assassin. This time, we knew we could slay the monk, but we needed to relieve of of the helm he wore. Sinjin, who moved in first, was able to successfully snatch the helm from the mummy's head before the Aoket could react. Fighting ensued, but the wight's assassination attempt failed, and the group was victorious. We had sustained injuries though, and the Paladin began to administer some aid to the wounded. That's when Gulthias finally decided to attack. He unleashed a series of fireballs and lightning bolts on the party from above. Once he was satsified that he had done us harm, he then descended to the floor to gloat over what he assumed was going to be an easy victory. To boost the vampire's confidence even more, Pendril made a fatal mistake. The Paladin attempted to dissuade the vampire from continuing his evil designs, and he lowered his guard as he spoke. The vampire wasted no time in casting a spell which killed the paladin.

all appeared lost. The paladin had been using some of his divine abilties to wreak havoc on the undead, and without him, our chances were slim. Gulthias did not wait to press his advantage, and he attacked again.

But, fate has a funny way of ebbing and flowing, and this time, fate smiled on Pendril. With his next action, Sinjin the rogue snatched up the body of the fallen Paladin and used the helm of teleportation he had just stolen to take Pendril back to the temple of Heironeous in Greyhawk. They had been there a number of times in their previous visit to the city in order to appeal to the temple for aid.

At the site of the fallen Paladin, and with reports of imminent death for Cathan, the high priest was summoned to assist. He was working against the clock, because while Sinjin waited, the battle at the spire continued. Gilidarius used mass haste to help the remaining party members. He attempted to cordon off the vampire with a wall of force, but the vampire was able to use dimension door to circumvent the wall. They exchanged spells, as did Cathan, and Bull attempted to get in a few blows, but Gulthias was joined by another vampire: the son of lady Falken, who had been kidnapped months before.

After a few moments, the High priest of Heironeous called on his deity to perform a miracle and bring the fallen Paladin to life. Heironeous blessed Pendril, and the rogue activated the helm once more. Upon their return, the group succeeded in slaying one vampire and then in turn, wounding Gulthias to the point where the evil one had to return to his coffin in gaseous form. Within a few moments, the party discovered the source of power of Nightfang Spire, and destroyed it, along with Gulthias.

Quinn was present for the final battle, but he escaped in a portal as the tower began to crumble. The party quickly gave chase and made it into a tunnel that led to the underdark. The collapsing spire sealed off any escape, and so it came to pass that the group of unlikely heroes descended into darkness to find the renegade Quinn. . .but that is a tale for another time.


Average starting level 9
Average level upon completion: 12
Total deaths: 4
Total restorations: More than can be remembered.

Analysis:

Try to start this adventure at tenth or 11th level.
Make sure all of the core classes are coverered: A rogue is essential, as many of traps are deadly. A cleric is essential, as restoration, lesser restoration and turning are essential.
A fighter is necessary and so is an arcane caster.
If you have more than four characters, a Paladin is a very nice addition for the group.
 
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VorpalBunny

Explorer
Cool story, Sinjin.

SPOILER SPACE




I didn't mention in my post that one of the deaths occured after the final battle with Gulthias. During the battle, the Ftr/Duelist was very injured, so he ran under the levitating heart for cover from the (mostly) aerial battle going on above it.

Anyway when the players finally defeated Gulthias, the heart fell, and yep, you guessed it - crushed the player hiding under it (I allowed a Reflex save, but the player failed).

Like I said a whole lotta fun. :D
 
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Celebrim

Legend
I haven't played it, but I would say that the party in question is toast.

The module is a real mixed bag for me. Structure wise, alot of it plays out as Castle Ravenloft without the cool atmosphere. You have the same 'aware' BBEG, protected by a series of traps and puzzles, and a labyrinthian vertical dungeon filled with assorted horrors. So structure wise, it is hardly original.

From a story perspective, the plot is non-existant and their aren't that many RP oppurtunities involved. Most of the challenges are dungeoneering, combat oriented, with a heavy emphasis it seemed to me on being well min/maxed in terms of character construction.

Problem solving wise, the problems aren't particularly imaginitive or intriguing. Some of them seemed to be borrowed almost directly from problems presented in RttToH, though slightly toned down from that. There is one hazard I immediately decided to steal, but for the most part nothing in the module would go into a dungeon of mine.

Alot of the combat involves repeated encounters with the same small selection of dangerous thugs. Most of this looks like it would get repetitive to me, though thier is some attempt to vary the tactics of the monsters.

The biggest problem for me is the map. With the exception of the final encounter, none of the map really makes a fitting setting for the horror that is supposed to be going on within. Old hands who remember the Ravenloft map, or the Tower of the High Clerist, or even the Tomb of Horrors map will understand what I mean when I say that the map is a really unprofessional and uninspired effort.

Where the module really shines to me is in the creative Leutinants of Evil that actively hunt down the party as the game progresses. They are exceptionally interesting and challenging foes, though they all really suffer from the lack of an interesting setting to engage them in.

The most frequently cited problem is the high number of save or die effects that cannot be avoided. Alot of people make the same complaint about ToH, and I don't have that complaint about ToH, so without playing HoNFS I can't really judge. I will say that there doesn't seem to be built in avoidance mechanisms for some of the traps, and worse yet, no designed means of avoiding certain monsters with save or die attacks (I'm thinking of one in particular). There doesn't seem to be alot of 'if you figure out the trick' the encounter becomes easy. Mostly it appears to be a grueling series of dice fests where luck is going to play a big factor.
 

phillipjp

First Post
Hehe, I forgot about the falling heart at the end! I was hoping to steel some of the cheer from the party's heroic finale by dropping that necromantic seepage on 'em, but alas they all made their saves. :p

BTW, if you're playing through all the official modules in order, having Gulthias' gazeway keyed to the underdark tunnel (when the players destroy the heart and the spire collapses) is a great way to move the players into Deep Horizon.
 

Kershek said:
Has anyone gotten through this module without a death? If so, what was the party makeup?
No deaths yet, but we're not done yet. We have cleaned out the tower (mostly--there is one room we did not enter ;) ) and are ready to go to the underground level(s).

We have (I think):

Barbarian 11
Bard 12
Cleric 12
Wizard 12
Barbarian 8
Fighter/Ranger about 9 total levels

We have had some close calls. You know, raging barbarian with 140+ h.p. taken down to under 20 h.p. in three rounds. Having two barbarians helps, and having 12th level casters who have not multi-classes has also been a big help.

Blade Barrier is our friend. So is Flame Strike.

I play the cleric. I have played with this group about 18 months, and I have never swapped out so many spells for Cure spells in my (character's) life.

I am looking forward to the lower levels.
 

Zarthon

Explorer
My group is just getting ready to go into Nightfang Spire. (waiting for my girlfriend to finish her exams).

Gulthias has been tormenting them for some time and they are chomping at the bit to get hold of him.

The party consists of:
10th lvl Illusionist
8th lvl Necromancer/ 2nd lvl Pale Master
10th lvl Barbarian
10th lvl Druid (desendant of Dydd)
10th lvl Fighter
6th lvl Cleric/3rd lvl Hunter of the Dead
5th lvl Fighter/6th lvl Lasher

Now the party does not have a rogue as I was playing him as a npc, he has now decided to explore other options (I got sick of searching for my own traps:)). And I really like those pit traps in the spire :D

As a DM I love undead and my players have finally figured this out
after a long and deadly dungeon crawl clearing out the bottem 3 levels in Mirabars Under City, where thay were first introduced to Gulthias and his plan to return Ashlardon to the prime material.
 

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