KaosDevice
Explorer
Greatwyrm said:
What about death from massive damage? That will rain on anyone's parade.
Survival Horror
What about death from massive damage? That will rain on anyone's parade.
ArcOfCorinth
First Post
KaosDevice said:
We've always used that rule.
Greatwyrm said:
I think attrtitive hp can work ok for survival horror, but a lack of debilitating injury effects does work against the atmosphere (a problem I had with AFMBE when I played a convention game - my PC got beaten to death by the other PCs who were using baseball bats to whack a zombie off me!). The PCs need to feel (a) trapped and (b) threatened.
(b) is easy to do in d20 by making sure that encounters equal or exceed the party's EL (their level+4 for a 4-man party). (a) means no or very limited Fly, Teleport or other travel/avoidance spells, which I think makes it difficult to run survival horror over 4th level. OTOH I ran an extended section IMC (Lost City of Gaxmoor) where the PCs' refuge was attacked by a vastly superior humanoid force and they had to make a fighting retreat; once the spellcasters' spells ran out it got quite tense & stressful, although they were 6th level+.
Rel
Liquid Awesome
One thing that occured to me was that food really is going to be a major issue in this campaign. It's not like they are going to be able to break into a house and find some canned goods laying around. And as things progress beyond the initial stages, it's going to get worse. Much worse.
Assuming that animals are similarly affected, entire ecospheres may die out. Imagine if 90 percent of the deer in a forest became undead. The other 10 percent are going to be extremely hard pressed just to avoid being killed by the undead squirrels, much less be able to find each other and continue breeding. The remaining non-undead carnivores are going to be completely screwed. Protien and fat of any sort is going to be at a premium.
On the other hand, the crops are going to lose a lot of their natural enemies and fields of beans and corn will grow, assuming that they are not tended by skeletal farmers. But they will also become absolute magnets for predators. The remaining living humans and animals will flock to these places for nourisment and it probably won't take long before the undead figure this out.
I have this great image in my mind of the party, close to starvation, charges into field of beans and begins shoving them into their mouths by the handful. That's when the zombies who were literally "laying in wait" begin sitting up all over the field.
Another scenario would be to have them travelling through a forest when a panic stricken deer practically blunders into them. They'll probably kill it for food. A few seconds later the horde of undead forest animals that had been chasing the deer come lumbering through the woods in pursuit. The party may have just killed the last living deer in the whole forest.
To me, the food situation all by itself is pretty scary.
Assuming that animals are similarly affected, entire ecospheres may die out. Imagine if 90 percent of the deer in a forest became undead. The other 10 percent are going to be extremely hard pressed just to avoid being killed by the undead squirrels, much less be able to find each other and continue breeding. The remaining non-undead carnivores are going to be completely screwed. Protien and fat of any sort is going to be at a premium.
On the other hand, the crops are going to lose a lot of their natural enemies and fields of beans and corn will grow, assuming that they are not tended by skeletal farmers. But they will also become absolute magnets for predators. The remaining living humans and animals will flock to these places for nourisment and it probably won't take long before the undead figure this out.
I have this great image in my mind of the party, close to starvation, charges into field of beans and begins shoving them into their mouths by the handful. That's when the zombies who were literally "laying in wait" begin sitting up all over the field.
Another scenario would be to have them travelling through a forest when a panic stricken deer practically blunders into them. They'll probably kill it for food. A few seconds later the horde of undead forest animals that had been chasing the deer come lumbering through the woods in pursuit. The party may have just killed the last living deer in the whole forest.
To me, the food situation all by itself is pretty scary.
BSF
Explorer
Nice angle Rel!
Heh heh. It isn't as if a lot of crops are edible without some work either. Sure makes those non-combat skills look a little more interesting.
OK, how about this? Would there be a circumstance penalty for Survival/Wilderness Lore to live off the land?
Ooh boy, all of those little farmers with vegetable gardens right outside the kitchen have provided a new "treasure" source.
The more I think about this, the more fun this whole game sounds. Hey, ArcOfCorinth, how is the game going?
Heh heh. It isn't as if a lot of crops are edible without some work either. Sure makes those non-combat skills look a little more interesting.
OK, how about this? Would there be a circumstance penalty for Survival/Wilderness Lore to live off the land?
Ooh boy, all of those little farmers with vegetable gardens right outside the kitchen have provided a new "treasure" source.
The more I think about this, the more fun this whole game sounds. Hey, ArcOfCorinth, how is the game going?
carpedavid
First Post
Disease
To address the problem of hit point attrition sapping some of the sense of horror, you could make the cause of the zombification or ghoulification a disease, a la 28 days. That way, hand to hand combat becomes immediately deadly. You wouldn't have to die to become a ghoul - just get bitten.
If you really wanted to press the fact, you could make the onset a round or two. Now the PCs don't have to worry about being overwhelmed - they have to worry about being touched.
To address the problem of hit point attrition sapping some of the sense of horror, you could make the cause of the zombification or ghoulification a disease, a la 28 days. That way, hand to hand combat becomes immediately deadly. You wouldn't have to die to become a ghoul - just get bitten.
If you really wanted to press the fact, you could make the onset a round or two. Now the PCs don't have to worry about being overwhelmed - they have to worry about being touched.
KaosDevice
Explorer
Another thing I thought of, although it might be late in the game for you, is to use the Sanity system from d20 Call of Cthulhu. That would certainly up the tension a bit. 
Beholder Bob
First Post
Very cool game!
the following spells need to be very limited or banned
CLERIC SPELLS
0TH....Create Water
1ST....Detect Undead, Hide from Undead, Purify Food and Drink
2ND....Augury, Consecrate
3RD....Create Food and Water, Remove Disease
xth.....and all monster summons (not much sense of horrer if you summon creatures to draw out the undead, check the stairway, etc.
perhaps creating food / water fails because the whole region is tainted?
same vein, purify food & drink eliminates all food/drink issues, same as above?
detect undead spoils surprise undead
remove disease removes a great fear that undead injuries should insure
all divinations should be filtered with a force, much like ravenloft. sure knowledge kills fear
zombies will quickly become boring / unscary. what if undead feed on undead if they don't find another food source after a long enough wait? And the eater of the dead becomes something...darker. After having fed on the dead flesh of countless companions, edgar the zombie became a wight. So the undead reduce in numbers somewhat, but you have an excuse for the undead to rise in power to match the players. Also, even after some have risen, some would still be plain zombies.
disease - often, and painful. infected bites. tainted food and water.
pace the game 3 games pressure, 1 game hope, 3 games pressure, etc. after a while, continous pressure breeds indifference. also, try different types of pressure/horror (you found a small group and stay with them in the tiny shelter, but one makes a dark pact to become undead rather then be eventually eaten. he begins to sabatoge...)
have magic suffer/weaken as well - rings of fireball negate a lot of the fear. if magic is rare, and almost always limited charges (resources, resources, resources). no bags of holding or similar devices.
followers and leadership should be okay - the pc's are become responsible for the last bastion of mankind. do you want to take all of your warriors into the next game, your town may die. even if they get a 'home', limited resources will always pull them back out for more. also, with so few people alive, you will eventually need to have a source to replace a dead pc.
again, cool game, much fun! if magic is rare/hard to find, people will have to settle for alchemical (and herbal) equipment. it becomes treasure. you may find my herbalism posting in home brew useful (or not). have fun scaring the players!
the following spells need to be very limited or banned
CLERIC SPELLS
0TH....Create Water
1ST....Detect Undead, Hide from Undead, Purify Food and Drink
2ND....Augury, Consecrate
3RD....Create Food and Water, Remove Disease
xth.....and all monster summons (not much sense of horrer if you summon creatures to draw out the undead, check the stairway, etc.
perhaps creating food / water fails because the whole region is tainted?
same vein, purify food & drink eliminates all food/drink issues, same as above?
detect undead spoils surprise undead
remove disease removes a great fear that undead injuries should insure
all divinations should be filtered with a force, much like ravenloft. sure knowledge kills fear
zombies will quickly become boring / unscary. what if undead feed on undead if they don't find another food source after a long enough wait? And the eater of the dead becomes something...darker. After having fed on the dead flesh of countless companions, edgar the zombie became a wight. So the undead reduce in numbers somewhat, but you have an excuse for the undead to rise in power to match the players. Also, even after some have risen, some would still be plain zombies.
disease - often, and painful. infected bites. tainted food and water.
pace the game 3 games pressure, 1 game hope, 3 games pressure, etc. after a while, continous pressure breeds indifference. also, try different types of pressure/horror (you found a small group and stay with them in the tiny shelter, but one makes a dark pact to become undead rather then be eventually eaten. he begins to sabatoge...)
have magic suffer/weaken as well - rings of fireball negate a lot of the fear. if magic is rare, and almost always limited charges (resources, resources, resources). no bags of holding or similar devices.
followers and leadership should be okay - the pc's are become responsible for the last bastion of mankind. do you want to take all of your warriors into the next game, your town may die. even if they get a 'home', limited resources will always pull them back out for more. also, with so few people alive, you will eventually need to have a source to replace a dead pc.
again, cool game, much fun! if magic is rare/hard to find, people will have to settle for alchemical (and herbal) equipment. it becomes treasure. you may find my herbalism posting in home brew useful (or not). have fun scaring the players!
Rel
Liquid Awesome
Beholder Bob said:
With due respect, Beholder Bob, I wouldn't ban or limit those spells were I running such a campaign. Especially the food and water oriented ones.
While I agree that the struggle for food and water makes a great motivation for the story, I think it would get old if it were the focus of almost every game session. With Create Water and Purify Food and Drink, they at least get a bit of respite if they are willing to prepare the proper spells.
Also, I think that having those spells in the game could lead to other, powerful roleplaying moments that further enhance the horrific nature of the campaign. What if the party meets a group of survivors that have managed to band together. They have successfully been able to fight off the zombies, but now they are slowly starving. When the party cleric realizes that, while he can create or purify a bit of water, it will never be enough for a group this big. Maybe some of them realize it too and begin to kill themselves so that the rest of the group will have one less mouth to feed. If that isn't grim and horrific, I don't know what is.
And it puts the cleric in a tough spot too. He could spend all of his spells everyday desperately trying to get enough food to feed these people, or he could try his best to use his magic to fight the undead that threaten to kill them all. Tough moral call there.
Another facet of religion to consider is whether the gods derive their power from the numbers of worshipers they have. If so, the Cleric may find his powers very much diminished and be heavily motivated to gain converts. One way to do this is to provide people with food and water if they will join the flock of worshipers. But here again, every spell he uses for that purpose is one less that he has to heal his buddies.
Same thing with Remove Disease. How terrible if the Cleric finds that he can't cast it enough times each day to cure all the new cases of disease that are cropping up.
FWIW, I think that the rest of Beholder Bob's ideas are great.
So, Arc, do you see this campaign having a "happy ending" or is it gong to go more the route of Night of the Living Dead?
blackshirt5
First Post
Man this is cool; now you've got me writing up a dark, Vampire Hunter D styled Survival Horror world. Curse you Arc of Corinth!
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