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Suspension of Disbelief stretched to the breaking point in the World of Darkness

Agback said:
Another key concept of the WoD is that the vampires have to work diligently to keep their existence secret, because they are afraid of what mundane humans would do to them if their secret were known.

Anyone who can hide a 75-cubic-mile excavation in Sicily full of bleeding edge engineering and VR gadgetry don't need no steenkin' 'masquerade'.
Exactly.

RisnDevil said:
I am not very familiar with NWoD, but I have played the old one, and in the old one, Elder Vampires WERE gods. As the old one was coming to a close, as I recall, an Antideluvian (yes, I know that is pretty much as high as you go) woke up and ERADICATED AN ENTIRE BLOODLINE! One vampire. If that is not god-like, tell me what is? That is part of the reason, again in WoD not NWoD cause I don't know, you don't play humans. Even Hunters stood no chance when you started talking about Antideluvians and Children of Gaea. Mages COULD hold their own, but not very easily.

All that having been said, I have to agree about dropping the ST/game. Still go hang out with your friend, but since she is a player, just go four hours late. The game is over and you still get the quality time. Or, why not ask the ST if you can co-chair the game? TEACH HER/HIM. No one just starts out as a great ST/DM/GM.

And about Sicily being SO BIG that something like that could be hidden. Sicily is roughly the size of Massachusetts with only slightly less population. It isn't THAT big.....
Exactly, by the math of it, the complex, with it's 9-square mile surface impact, is already .1% of the surface area of the entire island.

Technically, she has a Co-chair. Her boyfriend wanted to join the game, so he created a Ghoul PC with piles of disciplines and, some grandfathered-in merits from OWoD (when all the other PC's were starting mortals with only abilities from the main WoD book), and the PC's all strongly objected, so she named him as Co-GM and moved him behind the screen with her. Now, he handles a few rules-related issues (when she doesn't overrule him, which is often) and plays his (now N)PC who is the love interest of her plot-device uber-NPC.

The godline antediluvians was one big problem I had with old WoD, why bother with a masquerade if the vampires who were the ones who would have established such a rule had no need for it? The New WoD went a long way towards powering down old Vampires so that even the most powerful still needed the masquerade. The Blood Potency system that replaced Generation means that a NWoD vampire with stats in everything completely maxed out isn't nearly as invincible and unstoppable as an OWoD Methuselah or Antediluvian. The idea behind the masquerade was that normal humans, when they got together and mobilized in large numbers could be a serious threat to even the most powerful vampires, OWoD failed miserably there, NWoD is much more accurate on that account.

francisca said:
Hey wingandasword, stop letting your 12 year old neighbor run your games. (At least that's who it sounds like is running it.)
Actualy, she's 21 years old, and the mother of a 15 month old son.

As for other PC"s liking it, the game has had its enjoyable moments (typically when the PC's are RPing with each other and not NPC's). Whether it be let her boyfriend play a powerful ghoul, her arbitrarily declaring that a player can't know something (she loves to throw weird riddles and puzzles for the players to solve using player knowledge and not character knowledge, so when one player, her mother, realized the solution to a puzzle was in a famous novel, she was setting up the solution when she declared that said novel series didn't exist in her world and the solution from that novel didn't exist and we can't use it or even know of it, when we'd used similar solutions and sources for solutions to many puzzles), or her having much of a session being two nigh-invincible NPC's fighting each other with the PC's powerless to intervene so we just sit there for 45 minutes watching her roll dice over and over to see if one side can even hurt the other, to her suddenly changing big parts of the rules system and assuming we just knew (like her rewriting the entire task resolution mechanic on how successes are counted by grafting in a lot of the Old WoD rules, or her replacing extended rolls with a percentile roll where she arbitrarily decides the result by not telling you what your percent chance of success is, just roll d% and she says if you made it or not, and getting upset if you try and point out the rules to her and saying "I don't like having rules thrown in my face").

The way the campaign is going, I'm imagining it imploding within a few weeks or a few months at the outside, and then I'm going to offer to run one myself. Most likely D&D since that's what I know well, but maybe NWoD to show how I think it should be run.
 

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SidusLupus

First Post
If the GM has established that there's a certain amount of superfantastic VR tech, who's to say that whatever structure it is isn't camoflagued with some kind of invisibility?

It could also be in Sicily, but underwater. Sicily isn't a huge place but I'm sure there's got to be a way to hide it. While it may take an astronomical amount of resources to pull off.. they're immortal, right? Someone has to do something with their spare time.

Sounds like you have bigger issues in the game besides how big or not big the "dungeon" you're in is.
 

Huw

First Post
RisnDevil said:
All that having been said, I have to agree about dropping the ST/game. Still go hang out with your friend, but since she is a player, just go four hours late. The game is over and you still get the quality time. Or, why not ask the ST if you can co-chair the game? TEACH HER/HIM. No one just starts out as a great ST/DM/GM.

I agree. You have to start somewhere, and you have to get over the ego tripping associated with an inexperienced GM. The Storyteller systems are designed around rotating Storytellers, so might be able to salvage the campaign by handing the reins to someone more experienced.

RisnDevil said:
And about Sicily being SO BIG that something like that could be hidden. Sicily is roughly the size of Massachusetts with only slightly less population. It isn't THAT big.....

As per my previous post, just make it very old and cover it with soil to turn into a hill. Or build a city over it. If you want a mythological basis, remember that Vulcan was rumoured to live under mount Etna. Maybe that rumour was a distant memory of the Ventrue's massive underground complex? (but I hope it isn't really near Mount Etna - that would be pushing the limits of belief).
 


Crothian

First Post
At this point you either have to work with her or stop the game. It is very possible for players to point out inconsistancies in the game and ponder them allowing the ST to either realize she made a mistake or offer a way in the game to explain them.

Elders are not just powerful, they are very old. Maybe this Vampire has been slowly building this place for the past thousand years. That is very possible and it would make perfect sense.
 

Numion

First Post
Crothian said:
Elders are not just powerful, they are very old. Maybe this Vampire has been slowly building this place for the past thousand years. That is very possible and it would make perfect sense.

The changing layout with a lot of moving rooms can't be very old. In any case it would require an army of maintenance personnel to keep it humming. The logistics involved in the project would be impossible to hide in these days of anti-terror vigilance.

Or, if it was just handwaved away, there would be little need for the masquerade. That could be similarly explained as just a small logistics task.

While I have no trouble in believing Moria-like places in D&D, they make no sense in Vampire. The greatest construction project humanity has ever seen is .. a friggin adventure zoo for an elder Vampire? man what..

At the same time Iran with it's oil billions and huge land area can't hide a single research facility, much smaller than the adventure zoo?
 

Ion

Explorer
That sounds remarkably like the movie Cube.
Seven total strangers awaken one day to find themselves alone in a cubical maze. Once they meet, they work together using their given skills and talents to survive the deadly traps which guard many of the colored cubic rooms. Using Leaven's mathematical skills, they press forward, upword, and downward through the hatches to try and find the outer shell.

Summary written by Ryan

Seven different people, each from a very different walk of life, awaken to find themselves inside a giant cube with thousands of possible rooms. Each has a skill that becomes clear when they must band together to get out: a cop, a math wiz, a building designer, a doctor, an escape master, and a disabled man. Each plays a part in their thrilling quest to find answers as to why they've been imprisoned.

Summary written by {dadroog@hotmail.com}

The rooms move around and everything!
 

The Shaman

First Post
Numion said:
While I have no trouble in believing Moria-like places in D&D, they make no sense in Vampire. The greatest construction project humanity has ever seen is .. a friggin adventure zoo for an elder Vampire?
Hmmm...could this be the real reason behind the Big Dig? Could an elder Vampire's adventure zoo be concealed beneath the streets of Boston?

:eek:
 

Crothian

First Post
Numion said:
The changing layout with a lot of moving rooms can't be very old. In any case it would require an army of maintenance personnel to keep it humming. The logistics involved in the project would be impossible to hide in these days of anti-terror vigilance.

Moving parts are noit a 20th century invention. The Vampire was ahead of his time, that's not unbelieviable especially if the guy hasa 5 dots in intlligence which is not out of line for an elder. The Edler could easily be part of the anti terror program in this area, so he watches himself and that makes it easy to keep things hidden.


While I have no trouble in believing Moria-like places in D&D, they make no sense in Vampire. The greatest construction project humanity has ever seen is .. a friggin adventure zoo for an elder Vampire? man what..

Vampires in WoD are shown to be superior to humans, so it does make sens they would do things better.

At the same time Iran with it's oil billions and huge land area can't hide a single research facility, much smaller than the adventure zoo?

They don't have a Vampire Elder obviously :p
 

Ion said:
That sounds remarkably like the movie Cube.
The more I read about that movie, yes, this campaign looks like a huge ripoff of Cube, just add vampires and werewolves and make the rooms bigger.

Now, that's not to say that a ripoff of a cool movie can't make a good WoD game. I saw Dark City turned into a fine prelude for a Mage game once, but this isn't a case of that.
 

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